Making hives cost as much as premade ones!

[MrGreenThumb]

I had been doing some figuring and come to the conclusion that it cost as much to make a hive as it would to buy a prebuilt one. Am I correct? The cost in materials for a standard 8 frame deep, using #2 pine, would cost me as much as a already made cedar hive from Rossman.

Building your own hives can fun but do not plan on saving cash by doing so. Unless you are building a new hive design type(s) that can only be custom made it is probably cheaper to by one that is already made.

What are your guy thoughts?

thx

[WVbeekeeper]

The best price on hive bodies that I have found are at Western Bee Supply. Too bad they are not closer to me because they would get most of my business.
Click Here (http://72.4.160.253/westernbee.com/cgi-bin/quikstore.cgi?store=&search=yes&detail=yes&product=WW912&category=Boxes&keywords=&hits_seen=10&page=search.html&and=&affiliate_id=)
Hive Body - Commercial
$ 9.25

Click Here (http://72.4.160.253/westernbee.com/cgi-bin/quikstore.cgi?store=&search=yes&detail=yes&product=WW911&category=Boxes&keywords=&hits_seen=10&page=search.html&and=&affiliate_id=)
Hive Body-Select
$ 10.75

Click Here (http://72.4.160.253/westernbee.com/cgi-bin/quikstore.cgi?store=&search=yes&detail=yes&product=WW919&category=Boxes&keywords=&hits_seen=10&page=search.html&and=&affiliate_id=)
Hive Body-Budget
$ 8.00
The only ways you are going to do better than what you can buy precut hive bodies is to make them out of plywood or have a line on some cheap lumber if you don't care to spend the time to make them.

[talkingamoeba]

If you can locate someone with a bandsaw mill in your area you should be able to buy pine lumber for around 1/2 the cost of store bought.

[MapMan]

What are your guy thoughts?

I'm thinking that you are not buying a tablesaw. :rolleyes:

It makes common sense... Raw materials, tools and time. If you add them up, and they are more than you would spend on boxes (and shipping!), buy them. If you have low cost of raw materials, tools already on-hand, and time is not an issue, make them... Common sense.

MM

[iddee]

I was just looking at the pic of xC0000005's "frankenhive" in the photo forum and thinking how long it took to make it and what he had when finished. Then I compared it to a deep hive body I can buy fully assembled and painted for 12.50.

Sorry, but I value my time and the finished product more than that. I agree, if you buy the wood, buy the saw or saws, spend the time making jigs first, then boxes and/or frames, you are likely working for less than minimum wage for a non-professional job, unless woodworking is your vocation. Maybe even paying to work.

[peggjam]

I can make my boxes for way less than I could buy them for. Frames are another story, I don't even mess with those, I just buy'em.:)

[mlewis48]

I can mke my equipment for half the cost of buying it and the quality is a lot better. You have to buy the budget equipment to even get close to the price. A 1x12x 8 is only 10.oo and you almost get 2 deeps out of it. And with the left overs, you can make bottom boards, slatted racks, lids, the list goes on and on. I was going over my equipment inventory, doing a compairison of what Betterbee would have charged vs what it cost, 2,352.00 vs 300.oo in material that I have collected over the winter. The best way that I have found, to get cheap material is to talk to the lumber yard and ask them if they have any seconds. Material that could not be used in furniture because of a knot or a split but could be used if you were to cut it out. I get 1x12''s for 1/3 of the cost by doing this. I have never factored in my time because it is winter and if I was not in the shop doing what I love to do, I would be in the house watching t.v. and doing nothing productive. Winter has been long this year.
Marcus

[farmdon]

Us folks that live in the country get beaten alive by shipping costs. Its not the direct cost of the components, its the half again cost of shipping. A beemax hive body cost about $18 from dadant and shipping for UPS ground is about $12. That's crazy.

Making stuff in the woodshop, especially in the winter is a better use of my time than watching the boob tube. There are some parts of a hive that I refuse to pay their price for because it is too easy to make.

Its like if your wife needs 25 kisses a day. You might get that hired out for a good price, but it may not be as satisfying. Now if she need 5000 kisses a day, a man may have to hire that out.

If you are a city guy and have no shop to work in, then you are going to be unhappy anyway. Buy your big screen and those high dollar complete hives.

[AllFloridaBeeRemoval]

If you are a city guy and have no shop to work in, then you are going to be unhappy anyway.

I believe my wife is finally accepting this axiom :rolleyes:

[nc_beekeeper]

If you already have the tools then building hives yourself is cheaper and more rewarding. I can buy a 12' 1"x12" pine board for $14. It takes approximately 72" of board to make a hive body, so a 12' board will make 2 hive bodies. That comes out to $7 per hive body. Plus, since you have to rip the 1x12 down to 9 5/8 you have a cut-off of nearly 2" you can use to make all kinds of things.

[Gene Weitzel]

I have started making hive equipment out of Dow's RMAX 3/4" PIR dual sided foil backed, fiberglass reinforced foam board. Here is what I have come up with so far:

1 - 4X8 sheet of foam board - $11.41
1 - 50 yd roll of 2-1/2 inch wide HVAC aluminum tape - $13.58
1/2 tube of Loc-Tite Power grab adhesive - $1.35
about 25 cents worth of 2" drywall screws
Total: $26.59

For each lot of these materials I can choose to build one of the following:

A - 6 Deep hive bodies for a cost of $4.27 each
B - 9 Shallow supers for a cost of $2.84 each
C - 5 5-Frame nucs for a cost of $5.11 each (plus 0.62 worth of #8 hardware cloth if I put a screen on the bottom)
D - 10 mini mating nucs for a cost of $2.56 each
E - 5 miller type hive top feeders for a cost of $5.11 each (plus 0.85 worth of #8 hardware cloth)

The only tools I need are (all of which I already had):

1 - A good utility knife - $7.95
2 - A 100" aluminum cutting guide - $19.95
3 - A caulking gun - $5.95
4 - A #2 phillips driver bit - $0.79
5 - A cordless drill for driving screws - $50.00 (not a necessity but saves on the wrist wear and tear over a manual screw driver, and much faster)

The only other expense I have not figured in is painting the exterior, but that won't add much cost. I also have a lead on 55 sheets of the foam board at a local hardware company that are somewhat damaged and I may be able to pick them up for as little as $4.00 each. The jury is still out on durability, but cost and weight so far are big pluses.

If I get the time, I will post plans/photos at a later date.

[xC0000005]

I was just looking at the pic of xC0000005's "frankenhive" in the photo forum and thinking how long it took to make it and what he had when finished. Then I compared it to a deep hive body I can buy fully assembled and painted for 12.50.

Sorry, but I value my time and the finished product more than that. I agree, if you buy the wood, buy the saw or saws, spend the time making jigs first, then boxes and/or frames, you are likely working for less than minimum wage for a non-professional job, unless woodworking is your vocation. Maybe even paying to work.

As noted in that post, I was in a mood to build. What I got out of that was more than a 8 frame hive body of questionable construction. I enjoy doing that. I had the scrap wood left over, and I love corrugated plastic for certain tasks. That said, I usually buy hive bodies as well. I'll glue and nail them but I let others cut.

Time is a currency just like anything else. Make sure you are getting what you value your time at and all is well.

[richski]

Being cheap, I mean frugal and not very good carpenter, I was able to find a local commercial beekeeper that sold deeps at $8.25 each and mediums at $5.25. The quality was average but with no tax or shipping charges the cost was ½ of most suppliers. Try looking for a local commercial beekeeper. I found mine, which is listed in the Mann lake catalog as a distributor.

[iddee]

I would really like for some of the home makers to keep up with their time and post what their labor is per box. That is the only way the cost of making versus buying can be compared. It doesn't matter if you are having fun and would be doing nothing otherwise. To have a fair comparison, you must include your time.

That and the electric bill, the cost of machinery wear and tear, if not the initial cost. The cost of the shop building, property taxes on the building, ETC could just be thrown aside and I think the cost of buying boxes would still be cheapest in most areas.

I know there would be exceptions for certain areas.

[Kieck]

When a carpenter I know learned that I keep bees, he offered to make hives for me. I asked hime how much he would charge. He asked how much commercial outlets charge for woodenware. When I told him the price of a single deep (no bulk discount), he told me, "I can't even get the wood for that price!"

If you're building a few hives as a hobby or because you enjoy it or you're trying something that isn't available commercially, building your own makes sense, in my opinion. If you're trying to save money, you're usually better off buying the hives from other manufacturers. Like others have point out, machinery costs and labor and even hardware need to be figured into the costs, too.

[ScadsOBees]

I would really like for some of the home makers to keep up with their time and post what their labor is per box. That is the only way the cost of making versus buying can be compared. It doesn't matter if you are having fun and would be doing nothing otherwise. To have a fair comparison, you must include your time.

That and the electric bill, the cost of machinery wear and tear, if not the initial cost. The cost of the shop building, property taxes on the building, ETC could just be thrown aside and I think the cost of buying boxes would still be cheapest in most areas.

I know there would be exceptions for certain areas.

I agree, if you spend all of your time doing financially productive activies, HOWEVER....
If you spend much non-productive time, such as reading novels, watching tv, surfing the internet, kissing your wife 25x a day etc, (ok, I'm kidding about that last one!!!), and those things can add up really quickly, take those out and replace them with making equipment, you find that you are actually being productive. You may not be making minimum wage, but you do get something of value at the end, unlike watching TV.

I spent many hours making boxes and frames, and sure, I could have bought them for a reasonable price, but it filled in time that I needed filled, and left me feeling very good about doing all that. (it didn't cost a dime, either, except for the price of electricity)(oh, and a table saw, which I use for other stuff too).

If you enjoy woodworking, and perhaps are cheap like me, it is well worth it, as XC00...5 said. I've watched woodworking shows on TV, and they make all kinds of stuff you can get at the store. I grow vegetables, and honey that I can buy at the store cheaper than all the time I spend on it.

If you hate woodworking, then don't bother.

[talkingamoeba]

Everyones own situation is obviously different. But if we are going to figure true costs including time then we should probably include other true costs like the environmental costs of having equipment shipped that is certainly cheaper environmentally if made locally. The shipping cost is not the true cost. Local is cheaper in the long run, no matter how we do the math.

[honeyman46408]

I would really like for some of the home makers to keep up with their time and post what their labor is per box. That is the only way the cost of making versus buying can be compared. It doesn't matter if you are having fun and would be doing nothing otherwise. To have a fair comparison, you must include your time.

That and the electric bill, the cost of machinery wear and tear, if not the initial cost. The cost of the shop building, property taxes on the building, ETC could just be thrown aside and I think the cost of buying boxes would still be cheapest in most areas.

I know there would be exceptions for certain areas.

How much does a guy make when he goes fishin? It takes time and equpt.
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""golfin? " " " " "
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""huntin? " " " " "

I can build a deep for about 5 bux I sell that deep ready for paint for 10 bux yes I don`t make much per hour but it beats what I am doing now! So what ever nakes you boat float :D

[MapMan]

Gene W - you get a chance let me know how the foam stands up in the hot Texas sun. I can get factory seconds POLY ISO for about $8/sheet for 1 inch (R6), and have debated making at least some nucs out of the material. I can also get the material bonded to OSB (roofing panels) - you think that might work out for exteriors?

I can also get up to 4 inch thick panels (R25) - you think that will keep the cold out?:) The Amish here use it for their ice houses - they have been throwing out last March's ice now so they can get the ice houses stocked up with new clear ice. We're expecting lows of -20–25 tonight:mad:.

MM

[Dan Williamson]

In my opinion the biggest cost savings per piece come from building your own tops and BB's. I can save more money building those than I can building boxes. If you are buying bulk than I think it only makes sense to purchase...

The more boxes I'm needing the more reason I'm finding to purchase.... because I can get the boxes cheaper in large volume which offsets travel expenses and/or some shipping or labor expenses otherwise.

Sure the cost savings are there on the front end to build your own.... Its the amount of labor involved in cutting 400 boards and dadoeing 200 of them to make 200 boxes that really starts to eat you up. If you are only making 10 boxes then paying shipping on top of highly priced boxes etc... probably doesn't make sense... If you have the saw then its cheaper to build your own.

I recently purchased 110 boxes from someone that lives 3 hrs away. They cut the boxes to my specifications (rabbet depth and cleats for handholds) I could have make the boxes myself for cheaper. However, when I figured in my time driving.. and gas money vs the amount of time I would have spent in the garage building them... I was money ahead driving 6hrs round trip to pick them up and paying the gas money.

I am making my own migratory lids and SBB's because I can't find the same cost savings there but... You MUST assess your labor. If you have plenty of time and would otherwise be sitting in front of the TV... then labor is not an issue... but I don't have that luxury.

I can't possibly imagine why anyone would want to build their own frames unless they wanted something special.... I buy them no less than 1000 at a time and I think you'd lose money trying to make them yourself with the labor involved.

[danno]

I check everyday at our lowe's for cull lumber. It is 50 - 75% off. I just bought a bundle of five 1 X 12 X 12ft and one 1 x 12 X 8 ft for 23.00 Thats 11 hive bodies for 23.00

[Troutsqueezer]

It seems the cost difference is small enough to conclude it really just boils down to how you like to spend your time, unless you've got hundreds of hives. I blew way more than that amount of money on my Toshiba HD-DVD player which just became obsolete.

[Gene Weitzel]

Gene W - you get a chance let me know how the foam stands up in the hot Texas sun. I can get factory seconds POLY ISO for about $8/sheet for 1 inch (R6), and have debated making at least some nucs out of the material. I can also get the material bonded to OSB (roofing panels) - you think that might work out for exteriors?

I can also get up to 4 inch thick panels (R25) - you think that will keep the cold out?:) The Amish here use it for their ice houses - they have been throwing out last March's ice now so they can get the ice houses stocked up with new clear ice. We're expecting lows of -20–25 tonight:mad:.

MM

I can't imagine that the heat will have a lot of effect on the foam itself since it is a thermoset resin rather than thermoplastic. The heat normally would cause some shrinkage/warpage due to evaporation of the foaming agents, but that is why I seal all the seams and edges with the aluminum HVAC tape (it also adds a good bit of structural integrity to the joints). My greatest concern is durability, since the foam is fairly easily gouged and dented. Painting will help some with this. This season will be my first test of this material, so I will be sure to let everyone know how it turns out.

As for the material bonded to OSB, it might work OK, but the joints could present an issue. It would also require painting since unpainted OSB will not hold up long to moisture.

[Dan Williamson]

I check everyday at our lowe's for cull lumber. It is 50 - 75% off. I just bought a bundle of five 1 X 12 X 12ft and one 1 x 12 X 8 ft for 23.00 Thats 11 hive bodies for 23.00

How are you checking everyday? Do you call or work there? Otherwise how much time and effort have you invested just checking the prices everyday?! :)

[peggjam]

"I blew way more than that amount of money on my Toshiba HD-DVD player which just became obsolete."

Ouch:eek:.

[drobbins]

Troutsqueezer,

sshhh!!
I was gonna try to sell mine in the "for sale" section:rolleyes:

I built all my equipment the first year or two because it was fun
now it's just work
unless it's something I can't buy (which is still quite a bit), it's store bought for me

Dave

[xC0000005]

I have a nice DivX that I'll post as well. Just as useful.

[kyfarmer]

I just built most of my hives. I bought a SBB, metal rabbits and glue. Outside of that everything else I made. Woodworking is my hobby, but growing up in a family that was frugal, I thought about costs vs buying. So I made mine out of recycled stuff. I got my plywood for the tops and bottoms from a guy building a house. The 3/4 stuff came from an old house I tore down.
Those that want to make their hives can make them cheaper then they can be bought, if you try. It is all in what a guy wants.

[dug_6238]

For those that want to make a comparison to see which is cheaper, that's fine.

For those that are looking to prove that others are foolish by showing that they're not really saving money, I'd pose this:

If we were in this to make significant money, many of us would not be posting here. Many of us keep bees because we enjoy doing so, not because it's equitable or profitable. I keep bees because I enjoy doing so. I make my own boxes because I enjoy doing so.

The arguments relevant here are different in the hobbyist and commercial realms.

See "Hobby (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/hobby)"

I am a hobbyist beekeeper.

[Ross]

have started making hive equipment out of Dow's RMAX 3/4" PIR dual sided foil backedGene, are you sure your construction will hold up when you lift it full of honey? I'm interested. How did you do the frame rests?

I quit doing boxes. I can buy from Dadant, pickup so no shipping, and no tax because it's ag. I can save tons on tops (14 from a sheet of plywood) and bottoms.

[kbee]

I make my own lids, inner covers, and sbb. I usually wait for a rainy/cold day and go down in the basement for a few hours. I get to try new ideas. Some work some don't. Lately I've found myself wanting to go down even on nice days so I guess this building is becoming a hobby also and I'm in trouble. I did get 1x12x8's for 7.35 at Lowes last fall and will try making deeps soon.

[Jeffzhear]

Scrap lumber or lumber I pick up cheaply I save for the winter months and then make into bee boxes, bottom boards, or covers. I also build my NUC boxes, bottom boards and covers, because I can't buy the elements individually from Dadant, or at least I couldn't in the past. I try to be as cost conscious as possible. If I run short of something and time is precious, I primarily buy from Dadant, since they are close to me and I can save on the shipping costs. Frames, I buy outright. I can't see where making them would save me a dime. They are too labor intensive.

[danno]

Dan Williamson
Lucky for me my job involves checking pumping station just across the road from Lowe's. Their cull lumber is placed outside in a rack everyday. I just drive through. Dont even need to get out of the truck.

[iddee]

Did someone change the op from which is cheaper to which is more fun?
If you can make a 100 bucks worth of boxes in 4 hours, but can buy 100 bucks for your normal 3.5 hours wages, than buying is cheaper even if the materials are free.

>>>>How much does a guy make when he goes fishin? It takes time and equpt.<<<<

I know fishermen aren't thought to be the smartest people in the world, but I don't think there is one of us who would say catching your own is cheaper than buying them at the market. ;)

[Tug Fork Bob]

The way I look at it the money I spend on bee equipt. comes out of what's left after all the stuff I have no choice but to buy--(food, shelter, clothing, taxes, insurance, gas for the car,etc.). If I have to earn $100 to have that $5 left I figure every $5 I save by making my own stuff makes my time 20 times as valuable as doing something else to earn $100.

Boy am I highly paid!!

Bob

[Gene Weitzel]

Gene, are you sure your construction will hold up when you lift it full of honey? I'm interested. How did you do the frame rests?

I quit doing boxes. I can buy from Dadant, pickup so no shipping, and no tax because it's ag. I can save tons on tops (14 from a sheet of plywood) and bottoms.

Ross,

I have not actually constructed any deeps from it yet, only shallows, feeders, nucs and mini nucs. These items seem to be pretty sturdy. I rabbit the joints (you can easily cut the rabbit with the utility knife, but I use my table saw instead cause it is faster) then glue with the Loc-tite and then drive drywall screws into them to hold it firm. After the glue dries I reinforce the joints with the aluminum HVAC tape. The frame rests are rabbited and then reinforced with the aluminum tape. I put cleats on the shallows and they seem to hold pretty well (time will tell). I am concerned about using cleats on the deeps, I think they may tear out of the foam due to the considerable more weight of a full deep. I am thinking I will probably try cutting tapered handholds and reinforcing them with the aluminum tape instead.

[Walt McBride]

How many of you folks who fabricate your own boxes go the the extra mile and dado finger joints on the corners? Or do you use the butt and or rabbeted edge joint?
Walt

[Gene Weitzel]

How many of you folks who fabricate your own boxes go the the extra mile and dado finger joints on the corners? Or do you use the butt and or rabbeted edge joint?
Walt

The first few I made, I made with full box joints, but I gave up on that in a hurry and went to rabbited joints.

[kyfarmer]

I used flush jointed dovetails. I have a Craftsmen dovetail machine and a router. My opinion is that you get a better joint, and it is very simple to make. Also The glue surface area is greater, IMHO. I have not done the math to caculate the surface area but I will bet you. The only area that I had to watch was the rabbit. Unless you are carefull when routing this you can leave a very small amount of wood between the rabbit edge and the dovetails. I tried making both joints, box and dove, and found that with box joints I hade to keep the box square and with the dove the box 'fell' into square without effort on my part.

[riverrat]

If you are building your own equipment because you enjoy working with wood and you dont have anything better to do than thats great. Anything short of that your just buying yourself a job:rolleyes:

[John Gesner]

I get my lumber for free from the new housing development. The high-end homes use lots of 1 by stock for trim. Not much in the way of 1 x 12's, so I'll have to buy some for deeps. But I enjoy making my own mediums. I also made my own SBB's and modified my old ones to screens myself. I got a shop smith for free with all the attachments, a Kreg jig and screws for free, and I bought a reasonably priced dado blade from Harbor China... So you see, with all the free stuff I have, I HAVE to make my own boxes... :)

And yes, I'm a skilled technician that makes WAY more an hour than I can beekeeping. But woodworking and beekeeping is THERAPY. Have you ever priced the hourly wage for a good head shrinker? Factor THAT into your equation. :D

By the way, if you save the cuttings from dadoing, you can mix it in a double boiler with parafin wax and make your own fire starters in a used egg carton...

I'm not cheap... I'm THRIFTY. :rolleyes:

[Grant]

I still make a fair amount of my boxes because I enjoy it, though more and more, I seem to have less time to do it.

I also do it because I can get cheap, often "free" wood. Some of this wood is packing crates from implement dealers and restuarant supply stores. It's usually free of most knots and simply tossed out to be salvaged by nuts like me. Yes, it take a little time to pick up and take apart, but like a previous post, I have segments of "unproductive" time that I could squander watching TV.

I like it, mostly because I'm trading opportunity costs instead of out of pockets costs.

Grant
Jackson, MO http://www.25hives.homestead.com

[JC]

Us folks that live in the country get beaten alive by shipping costs. Its not the direct cost of the components, its the half again cost of shipping. A beemax hive body cost about $18 from dadant and shipping for UPS ground is about $12. That's crazy.

Making stuff in the woodshop, especially in the winter is a better use of my time than watching the boob tube. There are some parts of a hive that I refuse to pay their price for because it is too easy to make.

Its like if your wife needs 25 kisses a day. You might get that hired out for a good price, but it may not be as satisfying. Now if she need 5000 kisses a day, a man may have to hire that out.

If you are a city guy and have no shop to work in, then you are going to be unhappy anyway. Buy your big screen and those high dollar complete hives.

I joined my state beekeeping association and I order from those suppliers that attend the convention. The suppliers save me freight charges by bringing in my order to the convention.

You can save money by making your own telescoping outer covers and your own bottom boards. You CANNOT save money by making your own frames or hive bodies.

[peggjam]

"You CANNOT save money by making your own frames or hive bodies."

I beg to differ. I can and do make my own hive bodies far cheaper than I can buy them, even if I pick them up at Dadant's, I can still make them cheaper. Frames I agree with you on, it takes too long, and have to many cuts to save any money making.:)

[Gene Weitzel]

"You CANNOT save money by making your own frames or hive bodies."

I beg to differ. I can and do make my own hive bodies far cheaper than I can buy them, even if I pick them up at Dadant's, I can still make them cheaper. Frames I agree with you on, it takes too long, and have to many cuts to save any money making.:)

I make my frames, it costs me about 0.22 per deep frame in materials if I buy the 2x's. One of my sidelines is milling lumber (I have a mini-mill) so most of the time I don't have to buy the feedstock (I have not calculated the cost of milling my own yet, but I know its not "free"). My son and I can make about 50 frames per hr in my woodshop. If you figure our labor worth anything it probably comes out about the same as I can buy them less the freight. However, I cannot buy frames with 1-1/4" spacing and 1" top bars, so I would have to cut them down anyway, which would be much more of a hassle. Its also pretty convenient when I need frames on short notice since it only takes an hour or two to make up a batch, instead of a week if I ordered them. Another advantage is that for me, I can store a stack of 2x's easier than boxes of frames.

So I guess it really still boils down to one's individual situation.

[Brent Bean]

I make my hive bodies out of 3/4 plywood. I have had some in continuos service for six years without any problems. I can get six deeps and three medium supers out a 4X8 sheet, the last time I made hive bodies it cost me $23.98 per sheet. Even at budget price the cost is less than half price. So far the only drawback in using plywood is a deep is three pounds heaver.

[livetrappingbymatt]

One thing none of you have spoken of is the TAX benefits of buying?
Cheap or no cost materials are great but the labor you spend is LOST.
The fun of makeing your own equiptment is a good benefit if you consider it theraputic?
From a business stand point all of it is a waste of money.The IRS wouldn't allow you to take a wage to build your own equiptment.
bob evans

[Gene Weitzel]

One thing none of you have spoken of is the TAX benefits of buying?
Cheap or no cost materials are great but the labor you spend is LOST.
The fun of makeing your own equiptment is a good benefit if you consider it theraputic?
From a business stand point all of it is a waste of money.The IRS wouldn't allow you to take a wage to build your own equiptment.
bob evans

I don't know about you, but I am in business to make a profit, not for the purpose of creating a tax write off. Labor costs are one of the biggest costs of any business. The real question is if it is more profitable for your time to utilized elsewhere. At this stage of my operation, that is not yet the case. When and if that time comes, since I have 4 boys, I can probably still get my equipment built with minimal labor costs for a few more years. ;)

[farmdon]

After all this talk I proceeded differently and ordered complete deeps from Western Bee.
I had to order a few to get a price break on the shipping. Their spring special is 5 bodies with frames and plasticell for 99.50. If you ship 1, the cost is $46 for UPS.
Now if you ship 5 sets the shipping is something less than $125. In talking to them, the breaks happen at 500lbs and 1000lbs in truck shipping.
So roughly speaking each body complete with frames and foundation is around $25 shipped.
Frames are around 50-70 cents in quantity and plasticell is around 80-90 cents so if you deduct $13 per hive, its still $12 per hive for the body alone after shipping. This ignores the shipping you would need for frames/foundation. This is commercial quality stuff, so the frames may be worth more, and if that ponderosa pine really is better stuff than the pine/spruce boxes we make then that is a factor also.
I have enough stuff around here that I ordered frame material to match the 10 boxes I will make myself. I will be able to do that on my own schedule now that this mailorder stuff is coming. I'm a hobbist so I can't justify an order any larger than this.

The lesson is that given the high cost of shipping, we have got to get organized in our local chapters to order stuff in bulk greater than 1000lbs. Without that, the guy with a couple hives get beat to death and his hive costs twice as much unless you live in Dadant's backyard.

[JC]

"You CANNOT save money by making your own frames or hive bodies."

I beg to differ. I can and do make my own hive bodies far cheaper than I can buy them, even if I pick them up at Dadant's, I can still make them cheaper. Frames I agree with you on, it takes too long, and have to many cuts to save any money making.:)

You are not buying your lumber at Lowe's and your opportunity cost, mainly labor, must be inexpensive. Would you sell your hive bodies to the rest of us beekeepers for less money than we can buy them at Dadant's?

On the other hand, prices for telescoping outer covers and bottom boards from suppliers are too high. I would concentrate my labor on those items and try to get hive bodies at the lowest price without freight charges.

[JC]

One thing none of you have spoken of is the TAX benefits of buying?
Cheap or no cost materials are great but the labor you spend is LOST.
The fun of makeing your own equiptment is a good benefit if you consider it theraputic?
From a business stand point all of it is a waste of money.The IRS wouldn't allow you to take a wage to build your own equiptment.
bob evans

Good point! Additionally, if you do any cost accounting you will also know your cost of materials if you buy. Do you expense your hive bodies, etc. or do you depreciate them?

[peggjam]

You are not buying your lumber at Lowe's and your opportunity cost, mainly labor, must be inexpensive. Would you sell your hive bodies to the rest of us beekeepers for less money than we can buy them at Dadant's?

On the other hand, prices for telescoping outer covers and bottom boards from suppliers are too high. I would concentrate my labor on those items and try to get hive bodies at the lowest price without freight charges.

No, I don't buy my lumber from Lowes or any other dicount lumber store. I buy it rough cut from Amish mills, and dry and finish it myself. If I could get enough orders to make it worth my time, I would consider selling to other beekeeps at less than Dadant's price. But shipping would still kill you.:)

[JC]

No, I don't buy my lumber from Lowes or any other dicount lumber store. I buy it rough cut from Amish mills, and dry and finish it myself. If I could get enough orders to make it worth my time, I would consider selling to other beekeeps at less than Dadant's price. But shipping would still kill you.:)

Congratulations! There are not too many woodworkers who are doing what you do. I would love to see your operation. My specialty is making sawdust and wood shavings!

[beegee]

If you have lots of time and enjoy making sawdust and have access to cheap lumber, then making your own woodenware is fine. I figure my labor is worth $18.00/hr minimum. walking or riding, so I can't compete with the suppliers who will sell me a KD box for $6.00(doesn't count shipping), even if I could buy decent wood cheap. I'd have to build 3 boxes per hour(cutting, rabbetting, gluing, nailing)not counting the lumber, just to stay even. PLUS, I hate cleated boxes. If I had to figure out an affordable way to cut d-handholds in a box side, that would be even more expensive. I'd rather spend my time doing something more productive than making sawdust.

[spunky]

I am with Dan on this one. The real savings comes in building your tops and bottoms.


Save up for your hivebodies and purchase them when brushy has their free shipping in december

[MichiganBee]

Kinda a old thread but a subject Im dealing with right now. I purchased 6 of the Super deluxe Starter Hives from Rossman. Great looking hives, select grade cypress each unit has 2 deep supers and 2 shallow supers paid $175 for each. Total $1,050.00 shipping I believe was close to $300.00.

After recieving them I kinda kicked myself in the arse suddenly realizing I could build these myself and then wished I had bought just one for template use.

I called 100 differant lumber mills local and down through the southern "Cypress" country states. My first choice being to use Cypress and second being White Pine. White Pine around me I can get select rough cut for .60 a Board foot and I found a source for Cypress buying 500 bf or less for 1.08 a board foot and 1000 bf or more for .88 a bf.

So I figured my yields using 1" x 8" x 12' for shallow supers and 1" x 12" x 12' for deeps. Each 12' will yield 2 complete supers shallow or deep with about 2 1/2" of scrap. Each 12' costing me around $6.00

I figure cost of building my own: per super around $3.00 - $4.00 vs. $10.80 - $14.25. I figure around 15.15 bf for a complete hive, 2 deep supers, 2 shallow supers, stand, bottom board,inside cover and telescoping cover.

When it comes to frames it seems to be much easier to just buy them so I dont think I will bother with those.

So from what I gather if yopu have the time and are willing to purchase a larger quantity of lumber at a time the savings is amazing.

Luckily I am heading to S. Carolina for spring break and was able to quardinate me picking the lumber up and trailoring it back with a U-haul.

Checking on shipping to have it shipped here freight was over $700.00 YIKES!!

Good Luck!

[MapMan]

I have just completed making 100 boxes, and I have been able to get an average in cost and time for the brood boxes and supers:

Cost for lumber

Dried, but rough milled at slightly less than 4/4; quality varied from select to #2: .25bf, need about 6bf for each medium, so $1.50 in costs for medium. Wider 12" stock for deeps was better grade, but purchased at .50bf cost $3.00.

Time to produce from rough lumber

I did the boxes in stages for all lumber:

1. Planing
2. Jointing one edge
3. Ripping to width
4. Cross-cutting to side sizes
5. Box joints
6. Rip down to proper width
7. Rabbet frame rests

• Time to plane to 3/4 averaged less than an hour per 100bf. Average time planing per box 3 minutes. I had more passes than I wanted, as width varied (Amish mill operator isn't the most careful). I also was picky and measured with a digital caliper.

• Edge jointing one side 1 minute per box.

• Rip to width 1 minute per box.

• Cut to box size, including squaring ends 2 minutes per box.

• Box joint all corners 3.25 minutes per box.

• Final rip to size 1 minute per box.

• Rabbet frame rests on short sides 2 minutes per box.

Average total time:

13.25 minutes per box

If you are using S4S stock, you should be able to save steps and easily produce boxes in less than 10 minutes. Gluing up (which you would have to do for most purchased boxes in bulk) takes about 5 minutes per box, including hitting the box fingers with narrow crown staples.


MM

[MichiganBee]

Thats a pretty good bf price what species of wood are you using?

[Scut Farkas]

I had been doing some figuring and come to the conclusion that it cost as much to make a hive as it would to buy a prebuilt one. Am I correct? The cost in materials for a standard 8 frame deep, using #2 pine, would cost me as much as a already made cedar hive from Rossman.

Building your own hives can fun but do not plan on saving cash by doing so. Unless you are building a new hive design type(s) that can only be custom made it is probably cheaper to by one that is already made.

What are your guy thoughts?

thx

Don't build a lang.