Contract?? keeping hives on someone else's land

[Irene S]

I found a 'home' for my hives, I took an ad out on Craigslist and got some good responses. The next step is of course going to 'scope out' the new home.

The person who contacted me has several acres (with some apple trees) and has eastern (morning) exposure.

My question : should I write up a brief 'contract', outlining that I'm keeping the hives on his land for pollination, I'm maintaining the hives and will retain ownership of them? He's also requested that I call before coming over (which is understandable).. I'd also include a clause that he contact me prior to applying pesticides, or if he finds out that his neighbors have done so. (He's told me he doesn't, and I believe him, but things change .. we all know how that goes!)

Is this acceptable protocol? I'd be doing it to protect not just myself, but the landowner. Has anyone done something like this, and if so, what do you include in such a document? :confused:

PS It would just be an informal writeup that we'd both sign, not a big scary legal document.

[Joel]

It is a good idea for all the reasons you stated and a smart move! We do it for all our outyards.

[Chef Isaac]

if you email me at chefif@comcast.net I can provide you with the agreement that we use.

[Irene S]

if you email me at chefif@comcast.net I can provide you with the agreement that we use.

I just emailed you (worm_ct at yahoo dot com)... thanks! that would be just swell!! :o

...............................

ADDED: GOT IT, THANKS! You're the BEES KNEES!

[naturebee]

--My question : should I write up a brief 'contract', outlining that I'm keeping the hives on his land for pollination, I'm maintaining the hives and will retain ownership of them? ( I. S. )

A contract is nice to have, BUT it is not a guarantee that you will
have an enjoyable relationship with the landowner.

First, you really need to visit the person to get a feel for their beliefs.

I generally pay a visit, and mostly listen to the landowner talk.
You need to occasionally prompt them with any type of small
talk to get them expressing opinions about bees. Perhaps,,,
“Have you noticed many honeybees on your crops?”
“Do you think it will benefit your farm?”
"Where have all the honeybees gone?"

Most farmers and pro honeybee people know the value of honeybees
and will express that in their discussion. And bend over backwards
to accommodate you.

BUT, if they tend to start talking restrictions, and rules right off,
I personally would choose not to place hives there.

A contract should be the last thing mentioned.
And when it is, you want to be sure that the land owner understands
that it is manly so that ownership, and free access is guaranteed.

I don’t even mention giving the land owner anything, they get pollination
which is more compensation than any yard rent honey will provide.

Only after the deal is made do I mention that “if I have a surplus“, I
will provide a few jars or what I can afford. If your deal hinges on
any payment due, like yard rent honey, that’s probably a bad deal to make.
Others might disagree, but that’s how I feel. Where I have my hives, landowners
are very pro honeybee, and absolutely love having me there, and with NO contracts
what so ever. The farmers here know the value of honeybees and are very concerned
about their welfare. A very hot hive, even put one farmer in the hospital for a few days,
but he insists the bees stay. :)

Best Wishes,
Joe
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/HistoricalHoneybeeArticles

[Irene S]

--My question : should I write up a brief 'contract', outlining that I'm keeping the hives on his land for pollination, I'm maintaining the hives and will retain ownership of them? ( I. S. )

A contract is nice to have, BUT it is not a guarantee that you will
have an enjoyable relationship with the landowner.

First, you really need to visit the person to get a feel for their beliefs.
..
Best Wishes,
Joe
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/HistoricalHoneybeeArticles

Joe - thanks for the input. I had a conversation with the fellow yesterday (on the phone) and he seems to be in line with everything I believe in. He's actually looked into keeping hives himself at one point, and is adding some fruit trees this year to amend is alread existing orchard, and understands the importance of bees and their handiwork.

I will be going by there next month to see the place and have a conversation.. I asked several questions already but will try and initiate another conversation. I won't be whipping out any piece of paper straight away, only after I'm confident it's a good fit (and the landowner is comfortable with the situation too)

I know a piece of paper isn't a be all and end all, but with any good relationship it's nice to have your expectations up front (this has resulted in many first and last dates for me when I was single haha :p)

in this instance, some of his expectations will be included as well.

As for the honey, I'm not going to be selling it, I'll just be sharing with friends and family, so if there is any I'm sure there will be plenty for all. Besides, maybe I'll get an apple or two for a pie out of the deal :)

[Oldbee]

This may not be all that important to some, but at the time I made an agreement with the landowners where my hives are, I requested that if the hives need to be moved that the moving take place in the spring when the hives are not so heavy [cold winters] or full of bees. Of course, that is not always possible.

[BeeCurious]

I found a 'home' for my hives, I took an ad out on Craigslist and got some good responses.

Hi Irene,

I'd like to know what category you used for your Craigslist posting.

Is your account setup for you to receive email and PM's? I sent an email.

[Irene S]

Hi Irene,

I'd like to know what category you used for your Craigslist posting.

Is your account setup for you to receive email and PM's? I sent an email.

Hi yes I got your email.. will respond. :)

I put it in the farm & garden, in the NW Connecticut section.

[Chef Isaac]

Joe:

I somewhat agree. If they talk 'how much honey we gonna get from this" I will avoid going any further. I do not call it a contract but rather an agreement. It spells out my duties, their duties and arbitration if we disagree. It is sooo important that all stay on the same page!! I use it every year in every location.

I had a bad experiance when I lived in Oregon and I will never go into it without a written agreement.

[Irene S]

This may not be all that important to some, but at the time I made an agreement with the landowners where my hives are, I requested that if the hives need to be moved that the moving take place in the spring when the hives are not so heavy [cold winters] or full of bees. Of course, that is not always possible.

that would really be ideal, OldBee. I'm going to include that, it's better for the critters. I figured I'd structure it as 'move in early spring (pref) or with a weeks notice', something like that.

[Ben Brewcat]

I put a farm/garden post up: "WANTED: hosts for honeybees. Pollination boosts your harvest!" that got a lot of responses, some even from across the state. One guy emailed right away saying he missed bees in the valley and would love to build me a bear fence for as many hives as I want. Turns out he's a lapsed homebrewer as well :D. He's very low-key and friendly (and local), so I haven't felt like doing a contract with him. ABJ has had sample pollination contracts in those Sylvia Ezenwa (sp?) articles.

It's a great time to capitalize on recent media attention.

[Irene S]

Joe:

I somewhat agree. If they talk 'how much honey we gonna get from this" I will avoid going any further.
I had a bad experiance when I lived in Oregon and I will never go into it without a written agreement.

Just to clarify, I offered some honey, the landowner didn't mention it at all (I thought it would be a nice gesture).

I'm sorry about your bad experience.. :(
bah.

[Grant]

I have about a dozen outyards, none of them with a contract or written agreement. That kind of "relationship" doesn't sit well with the locals and it just raises suspicions about lawyers. The farmers, mostly retired, on which I have hives really honor a hand-shake trust and complain how we've lost that quality in today's culture. I've never offered a written contract or agreement.

All of my agreements are with people I know, or have come to know. They are verbal and we talk about access and swarm prevention. All of my landlords are country-type people, many of them had bees on their farms when they were young children and having bees is kind of a nostalgic/romantic return to their childhood. I always make it a point to stop in and visit with them when I come onto the property which does more good than a written contract. One of my landlords gave me a copy of the key that unlocks the gate in case he's not around.

I offer honey in return, and only one person "splits" the honey harvest on 50/50 "shares." But this fellow offered to buy new equipment (He was enamored with Beemax hives) if I would supply the bees and the labor. We started with three hives and we're expanding with three more this spring. I sell his share of the honey through my normal packing/farmer's markets, and give him a wholesale price of $1.25 per pound.

Everyone else just wants a couple of quarts during the year, which usually gets stretched into a couple of extra quarts for their neighbors/pastor/grown children. I'm happy to offer more but no one takes advantage of this arrangement.

With all this being said, I still carry a liability insurance policy. It took me a long time to find someone who understands what I do to underwrite a policy. You can scan and search previous posts for more information in this forum. There are companies out there that will write beekeeping insurance and what I have is a property/premises liability policy. I skipped the terrorism and earthquake coverage. It's cost is around $500 a year and I'm happy to pay it.

So far I've not had any problems but I think good communication is my key for the type of people I deal with (a lot of them are back-slapping Baptists, just good old salt of the earth type people). To them, offering a written contract looks like I don't trust them, and if I don't trust them, then they may not have a reason to trust me.

Grant
Jackson, MO http://www.25hives.homestead.com

[Oldbee]

Good points Grant. I just want to say that in my case the "agreement" [for three hives] was requested by the landowners, not me. Maybe in some instances the landowners are concerned if the beekeeper gets injured on their property. That's all I know.

[Grant]

And that's a good point as well! I never think about me getting hurt, and suing a landlord where I keep bees for my injuries would be a sure-fire method of losing all my other locations.

I did get stuck once and the farmer fired up the Minneapolis Moline "Z" to pull me out. No damage to my truck, but that, too, was an issue I wasn't ready to bring up. After all, I should be grateful he even offered to pull me out...for free.

Grant

[naturebee]

Joe - thanks for the input. I had a conversation with the fellow yesterday (on the phone) and he seems to be in line with everything I believe in.,,,

As for the honey, I'm not going to be selling it, I'll just be sharing with friends and family, so if there is any I'm sure there will be plenty for all. Besides, maybe I'll get an apple or two for a pie out of the deal :)

Sounds like he might be a wonderful person to associate with,
and you sound like a great person also, And I love you’re
attitude about sharing, makes beekeeping that much more enjoyable!

Good Luck to ya,

Best Wishes,
Joe
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/HistoricalHoneybeeArticles

[riverrat]

I have all of my hives in out yards none with a contract. If I cant do a gentlemans agreement with a hand shake. Then I wont put bees there. If I was a landowner and was approached about putting bees on my land. then have the guy want a contract I wouldnt let him on my place. That would be taken has distrust around here. Of course I live in a small town where everyone knows everyone. Which may make a difference on the trust

[Chef Isaac]

But check this out... you meet a guy who doesnt mind having their bees on their land cause they had them when he was younger. He agrees to take 10 colonies. they shake on it and all is well. Two years into it, their daughter got stung three times and had to go to the emergency room. He claimed it was from your bees. He sues the beekeeper.

Happened in 1998 in SE Washington.

Not convinced.... how about this one:

2002 a small family wanted to have some bees on their land for their fruit trees. They found a local beekeeper who put 5 hives on their land behind the shed. He made sure the owners did not use any pesticides. However, 4 months into it, the land owner used some pesticides to treat some of their fruit trees and it killed 4 of the beekeepers colonies.

I do not call it a contract but rather an agreement. It spells out my duties and their duties. By seplling out their duties, they know what is asked of them. By spellingo ut my duties, they know what to expect from me. Any disagreement over the season on an issue brings in arbatration.

It is funny that some think they do not need a contract but they have liability insurance.

I find it funny that when you go buy a car, you sign contracts and agreements. Why cant it be just a "gentlemans" handshake?

Lets face it folks, we are in a time that people sue for silly reasons. It is my belief that you need to protect yourself, your family, and your bees.

You cant jsut go on a hand shake and a friendly person. "Friendly" people are not always friendly... remember that.

[riverrat]

chef you bring up some good points that probably work in your area. Your part of the world moves faster than around here. I build good relationships with the people I have bees on. A lot of the people I have bees on have started to allow me hunting fishing and wood cutting on there land. Why because I have built trust with them on the way I take care of them and there property. The thought of getting sued has never crossed my mind. If there is a problem I usually get a phone call drive out and we come up with a working solution that satisfies all. I have never been asked to remove a hive from any person I have bees on, although, I did have to buy a dog dish because the bees locked onto their dogs water dish one summer.:D A contract or an agreement would be a sure fire way to have the door slammed shut on putting bees on the person. And probably anywhere else in my area once it got out that. I had to have a signed paper with them to put bees on there land.

[Chef Isaac]

Riv:

You are right in the "faster" point. Sometimes I wish I could just slow down! :)

For me, the agreement is something that just spells it all out for each party.