Frames and Foundations

[marty_rk]

There is a kit that i am looking at that the foundations come with Crimp-wired, but I think I want pierco instead. Is there a pro to having crimp-wired for the brood?

My thought, Pierco for brood and cut comb for honey supers.

And what are the pros and cons for the different foundations of Duragilt, Crimp-wire, Cut comb, Thin surplus, and Plastic?

Thanks

[Ross]

I'll let someone else attack this. Short answer is I don't use any foundation anymore.

[Troy]

Ross,

I like the idea of not using foundation anymore. I made up a bunch of frames last summer to give this a try and had some problems that I’m hoping you can help me with. I made my frames using a small strip of plasticell as a starter and I wired the empty frame in order to give it some strength in the extractor. I did this on both shallow and deep frames. Shallow for honey extraction and deeps for the brood nest.

1. I know it is not terribly important, but how do you prevent them from drawing it all in drone comb or worse yet, a mix of regular comb and drone comb? In fact a couple of mine were drawn fully in drone comb and they turned out great, I just don’t like it when it is mixed.
2. How do you keep them drawing in the center of the frame? In many cases they drew comb starting from the edge of the frame, or sometimes they start from the top bar, just not the starter strip I gave them,
3. Another problem I had was that the wire seemed to go slack after it was in the hive for a month or so. Did the wood shrink? Why would it shrink in the hive? I would have thought it would expand in the highly humid hive environment, and that would cause the wires to get even tighter.

[marty_rk]

Can I put natural comb into a honey extractor then?

[riverrat]

Can I put natural comb into a honey extractor then?

you can if you are careful.

if you cross wire it would be a help. I use crimped wire foundation for everything. I wouldnt waste my time with durachit it junk IMO

[WVbeekeeper]

Can I put natural comb into a honey extractor then?

You can with a radial extractor. Works for combs from top bar hives or regular frames.
http://swienty.com/?pid=1&id=108600

When using foundation I like crimp wired for brood and it varies in the honey super depending on what I want to do with the frames.

[JC]

There is a kit that i am looking at that the foundations come with Crimp-wired, but I think I want pierco instead. Is there a pro to having crimp-wired for the brood?

My thought, Pierco for brood and cut comb for honey supers.

And what are the pros and cons for the different foundations of Duragilt, Crimp-wire, Cut comb, Thin surplus, and Plastic?

Thanks

I use wood frames with all plastic foundation. Walter Kelley Co. has the best wood frames. I use the frames with grooved top bar and bottom bars. Additionally, I use Mann Lake's "Rite Cell" plastic foundation. Their plastic foundation is thicker and has deeper cells than Dadant's foundation. I also use black plastic foundation for the brood nest to help me see the eggs better.

Do not buy Duragilt foundation. I used it in the early 1970s. The newer plastic foundation is far superior. There is nothing wrong with crimp-wire foundation. Kelley makes the best wax foundation. Just do not mix plastic and wax foundation in the same colony.

I use thin foundation for my Ross Round comb honey supers and cut comb "surplus" foundation (no wires) for my cut comb honey supers. Cut comb foundation is thicker than "thin surplus" foundation. Remember, you will be eating that foundation! This year I will only be using a 3/8" strip of foundation for my cut comb frames. Cut comb honey is messy, however. I prefer Ross Round comb honey. Additionally, I use wood frames with a wedge bar for my cut comb supers

[Ross]

1. I know it is not terribly important, but how do you prevent them from drawing it all in drone comb or worse yet, a mix of regular comb and drone comb? In fact a couple of mine were drawn fully in drone comb and they turned out great, I just don’t like it when it is mixed.
Drones are part of a healthy hive. Just move it to the outside of the brood nest and they will lay in it when they need drones and store honey and pollen in it otherwise. Even with foundation, they will chew it into drone comb if they need it.



2. How do you keep them drawing in the center of the frame? In many cases they drew comb starting from the edge of the frame, or sometimes they start from the top bar, just not the starter strip I gave them,
I don't use starter strips at all, just a beveled top bar. Very rarely I will see them draw from the bottom. I think this is usually caused by a comb breaking down and dropping to the bottom. I just scrape it off and make them do it over. They usually get it right the next time. If the ends curve over to another bar (happens at the outside of the box mostly), I just cut it loose from the adjacent bar and bend it back in line. Sometimes I slip a rubber band around the frame to help align it.


3. Another problem I had was that the wire seemed to go slack after it was in the hive for a month or so. Did the wood shrink? Why would it shrink in the hive? I would have thought it would expand in the highly humid hive environment, and that would cause the wires to get even tighter.
I don't wire. It just seems like too much work, kind of like foundation is. I extract my frames (all mediums). I have an occasional blowout, but not that much. I try not to extract comb before it has a chance to harden. You almost never have a problem after the comb is a year old.

[Michael Bush]

>Is there a pro to having crimp-wired for the brood?

The bees accept wax better than plastic.

>My thought, Pierco for brood and cut comb for honey supers.

If it was 4.9mm I'd go for it. It's not so I get Mann Lake PF100 or PF120s because they are 4.95mm.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesnaturalcell.htm#cellsizes

[sierrabees]

I've been ripping out most of my comb that was built on crimp wire foundation and replacing in with starter strips. I don't know if I just got a bad batch the last time or what happened, but the crimp wires have tended to curl and break free from the bottom bar. The result was that when hot weather comes I start finding a frame or two in every hive where the wire is sticking out the side of the comb and creating a nuisence when I have to handle the frames. Even with cross wiring, the crimp wire will still curl out below the bottom wire and can project an inch or more from the side of the frame, scratching the cappings on the adjacent frame when you pull the frame out. My bees make better comb without foundation, and after a year or two it gets just as strong as the wire reinforced combs. I just have to handle it carefully until they tie the sides of the comb to the side bars and get a few attatchments to the bottom bar.

[Dan Williamson]

This has been discussed many many times... bottom line for me...

Wood frames/ pierco foundation. Black for brood, White for honey supers.