Natural size cells...?

[Scut Farkas]

If you use a tob bar hive, be it verticle (Abbe Warre) or horizontal (Kenyan or Tanzanian), is it a given that bee's will make natural size cells?

If not, will they eventually make natural size cells?

Does it make a difference if you buy a nuc that has been raised on wax foundation vs. ferals?

Note, I didn't say small cells, only natural. From what I've read, natural cells vary in size, per the needs of the bees.

[drobbins]

in any kind of foundationless setup, since you aren't giving the bees a template to build on, I suppose you "have" to call it natural cell size
what else would it be?
it's what they wanted
that doesn't mean that after some time of being allowed to "do their own thing" they won't change their mind about what they want to do
elaborate on the point of your question

Dave

[Scut Farkas]

I've read about people having to regress bee's to small cell. I didn't know how this worked in the context of a top-bar hive, if it was even relevant. Do bee's raised on large foundation make larger cells "naturally" or do they immediately revert to the natural size when given the opportunity which I assume is likely smaller cell.

And with feral bee's, I suppose it's possible that a swarm in the wild is just cast off from a lang hive raised on foundation or they could have been feral for multiple generations. Does how long they've been feral make any differnce in the cell size?

in any kind of foundationless setup, since you aren't giving the bees a template to build on, I suppose you "have" to call it natural cell size
what else would it be?
it's what they wanted
that doesn't mean that after some time of being allowed to "do there own thing" they won't change their mind about what they want to do
elaborate on the point of your question

Dave

[drobbins]

in my experience, when allowed to do what they want, they build something in between LC and SC
I consider this an excellent way to regress
let them have a go round of natural cell, then feed them some SC foundation
as you say, with ferals, you just don't know what you have
but letting them build what they want is a step toward doing what is "natural"
this is my 4th year and I've been pushing them toward SC the whole way, the way I'm doing it it takes time, but I'm getting there
no hard chems, a little OA and my mite counts are really low and the bees look great
hoping to be free of OA soon

Dave

[edit] before someone corrects me, let me point out that SC is not "natural":)

[Michael Bush]

>If you use a tob bar hive, be it verticle (Abbe Warre) or horizontal (Kenyan or Tanzanian), is it a given that bee's will make natural size cells?

By definition. But the bees raised on that might build smaller cells.

>If not, will they eventually make natural size cells?

Yes.

>Does it make a difference if you buy a nuc that has been raised on wax foundation vs. ferals?

Yes. If they were on 5.4mm cells they will be less inclined to build as small of cells than if they were on smaller cells. Ferals are probably on smaller cells, which will vary depending on how may generations of comb it is. If they are recent escapees they probably built about 5.1mm cells. If they are from 5.1mm cells they probably built about 4.9mm cells in the core of the brood nest.

>Note, I didn't say small cells, only natural. From what I've read, natural cells vary in size, per the needs of the bees.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesnaturalcell.htm