Varroa and flowers

[pauvil]

I'm wondering, in my reading on mite treatment it seems that, and maybe I'm way off, that the main ingrediant found in a Apistan is Fluvalinate, a synthetic form of Pyrethrum called Pyrethroid. The natural form which is found in some species of the Chrysanthemum. These flowers have been known as beeing natural insecticides. Maybee it's a crazy idea, but I wonder how a nice patch of the flowers would work as natural mite control. Regardless, I will be planting some around my hives.

[HoneyBeeGood]

I've used Pyrethrum as a broad spectrum, natural insecticide some years ago. I'm not sure if the bees would suffer or not. It certainly kills cucumber beetles pretty well.

[pauvil]

I wasn't goin to dry it, I mean, plant some around the hives for the bees to use, maybee the small amounts in them will kill the mites when they feed on the bees.

[hummingberd]

I'd love to know more about your results. What an interesting theory...

[pauvil]

Right now everyone here thinks the new guy is crazy....they all did when I said you could solve the energy crisis with human waste....99.9 percent efficient fuel. I saw a farmer out west heats his barn and house with it, (well a cows anyway). Like I say.....I have to know.

[Bizzybee]

I would tend to think that they are not on the bees big list of favorites to visit. Even more so with only a hand full planted around the hives. There may be some visitation should they be in bloom during a dearth but then only by a few bees.

But hey, what do I know!?!? The hives will surely be pretty sitting amongst the flowers!!

[pauvil]

Your right!! that will look very nice, what the hey, we landscape our yards don't we. It's just a thought. I know they say that the feral colonies, what's left, have a better tolerance, so what could be the cause of that?? Has to be something.

[Kieck]

First off, pyrethrin (as well as pyrethroids, which are synthetic forms similar to pyrethrin) is toxic to bees. Fluvalinate is toxic to bees, too, which is why getting the concentration right is so vital. A little too much, and the bees will die as well as the mites.

But I doubt that nectar from chrysanthemums has much if any pyrethrin in it, so the bees (and mites) should be safe.

They would look nice around the hives, though, and some of your bees might visit them.

[pauvil]

Thats the thing, it is toxic to the bees yet we treat them for mites with it. So even in treating the bees it has to be toxic to them at a certain level wouldn't you think. Just like cancer treatment in us, yes it kills cancer but takes a lot of years off your life as well as it kills good cells as well. AS FAR AS THE FLOWERS HAVING PYRETHRUM , THEY DO. The question is then, would the bees use them. Hey, it's worth a couple bucks and it will be an interesting experiment. Most of us walk around with some form of parasite all our lives, many foods we eat will either kill them or make them want to leave. This is were I got to thinking.

[Kieck]

Thats the thing, it is toxic to the bees yet we treat them for mites with it. -pauvil

Sure. And salt is toxic to humans in high enough concentrations. So is sugar.


So even in treating the bees it has to be toxic to them at a certain level wouldn't you think. -pauvil

Yes, which is part of the reason why "monitoring" is so important. Don't treat until you have a problem that requires treatment. Think Apistan and CheckMite+ as "rescue treatments" only.


Just like cancer treatment in us, yes it kills cancer but takes a lot of years off your life as well as it kills good cells as well. -pauvil

I tend to agree, but doubt that the difference in life span for a worker that would live roughly one month as an adult without a fluvalinate treatment would be significantly greater than the same worker exposed to a fluvalinate treatment.

Queens, in particular, are a different matter.


AS FAR AS THE FLOWERS HAVING PYRETHRUM , THEY DO. -pauvil

The flowers may, but the bees aren't eating the flowers. The bees would be drawing nectar ("sugar water") from the flowers and possibly some nectar. The amount of pyrethrin in the nectar must be negligible at best. Pyrethrin and pyrthroids at levels lower than a lethal level tend to have a repellent effect on insects, and the plants that produce the pyrethrins rely on insects for pollination.

Nectar and pollen are very different than other plant parts. Do you have references that demonstrate that nectar and pollen from various chrysanthemums contain pyrethrins?

[drobbins]

I've wondered the same thing about planting thyme for the bees to forage on. we have a nice herb garden and I've made it a point to have a larger patch of thyme than we have any use for. I've seen it reported that herbs tend to give honey a specific flavor so that kinda indicates to me that honey from thyme may contain some thymol, the active ingredient in several "soft" treatments.
I have NO idea that this helps with the mite situation, I kinda doubt it does, but what the heck, it looks nice in the garden

Dave

[Bizzybee]

"I know they say that the feral colonies, what's left, have a better tolerance, so what could be the cause of that?? Has to be something."

Why does so many think that there's some mystical external agent at work that makes some bees more resistant to the mites. In a society that wants to put so much weight in the evolution theory, ( And I DON"T want to turn this into a discussion on evolution ) why is it so difficult to accept that the bees by their own devices are adapting to their changing environment and threats? Did they not have the capability to do so, how would they be here now. Is this the first obstacle that bees have had to deal with? Have the bees in eastern Europe not been able to overcome this threat? To say that our own ferals to some degree have begun to shown resistance, and not acknowledge that not only feral colonies are becoming better equipped. But also that captive colonies are adapting as well. And it isn't by no means coming from treating with anything that is causing that to happen. If anything it is prolonging the problem.

There are to many people keeping to many bees without treatments of any kind without mite problems to ignore the fact that it can be done. And done so successfully.

pauvil buddy, believe me this isn't in any way pointed at you!!!! I only copied your statement because it is an echo that I have heard from so many times before.

IMHO the only intervention that man will ever embark on to prevent extinction of any creature will be one that ends his own stupid and careless onslaught of the world.

OK, that's my rant for the evening. Just don't use profanity with your responses so Barry won't have to pull out the BIG ERASER on ya! :)

[pauvil]

Nothing anyone syas to me offends me, I'm here to throw things into the wind that I think of from the reading I do. Lets face it, I don't even have my first hive going, what do I know. I just have ideas like the rest of you and want to see how others feel.

[paintingpreacher]

Wood Sorrel,, (Oxalis crassipes) Lot of these flowers around this area and the bees love them. I understand this is one plant that contains Oxalic acid from which it gets its name.