marking queens

[honeyshack]

been bee keeping for a couple of years. Started with two bought from the bee co-op, then bought more in the form of nucs. Then split my hives and bought queens.
So this has been a learning curve.
What would you use to mark queens. I'm told the pens do not last long enough.
I've read that kids model paint works well.

Suggestions? What is the easiest method

finally, the queens that were bought were not marked, actually, most of my queens are not marked. I understand that there are colors for the years. Seens how i do not really know the age of most of the queens, could i use a color not on the chart to mark, just so i know if the queen was replaced, easier to find, etc? What would be a good color?

My hive detail records are not that good. I have downloaded a hive record sheet I would like to try this year.
Basically my record keeping was general, treating, feeding etc. Any notes were made on the back of the hive for reference when I was working with them the next time. Pretty sad i know.
I keep better cattle records lol

[Michael Bush]

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesqueenrearing.htm#Queenmarking

[peggjam]

Get one of these, with the correct pen for the year you are marking for. Works really well, just don't let your four year old carry the thing when it has a queen in it;).

http://www.beeequipment.com/products.asp?pcode=264

[BEES4U]

One of the harsh chemicals is a drying agent called acetone.

The sane chemical that glue snifing druggies use.
Try this , place some finger nail remover on a band aid and apply it to the inside of your wrist. It gets hot and irritated. Now, that is no way to treat a $20.00+ queen after the breeder and the bees spent 30 days getting the queen produced!

I tried it on a queen for a customer 30 years ago. It really put her in a chemical turmoil. She tried removing it with her feet after I blew on her to dry her off.
And then their were the paint kits that were sold by bee suppliers.
If you take one of those modern queen marking pens and apply it to your finger nail you will find that it takes some pressure to paint her.
I will not mark any queen as I think that it can cause supercedure.

[peggjam]

"If you take one of those modern queen marking pens and apply it to your finger nail you will find that it takes some pressure to paint her.'

I've never had that problem.:)

[tecumseh]

I use one of those paint pens that is available at the local hobby store. I don't really paint my queens for any purpose besides making her a bit easier to spot on the frame so I totally ignore the international color scheme (which is really only usable as a queen breeder if you reared one 'race' of queenbee) and go for the brightest color possible. I really like pink.

in addition I cut a 2 inch circle from some #7 or 8 hardware wire, slightly deform the wire to make a shallow cup, glue this to a 6 inch wood handle and then wrap the edges of the hardware wire circle with electrical tape (this keeps the raw edges of the hardware wire from snagging on stuff). I use this to pin the queen to the frame and mark her thru one of the squares in the hardware cloth.

[BjornBee]

BEES4U,
I have the same thought process when it comes to marking queens. We have had this conversation here on beesource before a few times. To my knowledge, there has been no studies to show if any damage occurs over time. Having my queens run around with a paint spot the equivalent of 10% or more of her body seemed about as unnatural as one can get.

I originally thought that the paint was some special paint developed for the bees industry. It is NOT! Its just the cheapest, and most convenient. No tests. No studies...nothing.

I asked once what someone thought if we took this same paint and painted a beekeepers back a circle the size of 12 inches round, and left it there for the rest of that persons life. I wonder what the long term impacts.

For the most important smell (pheromone) member of the hive, to run around with a chemical paint spot on her back, makes me wonder. I made reference also once of how many seemingly safe products we have marketed over the years just to humans, and found out years later that autism, cancer, and other health conditions rose sometimes unnoticed. Humans marketed smoking to enhance athletic performance for the Olympic in the 30's and 40's. We had women used birth control devices that gave cancer years later. The list is long.

And so we dab a paint disk on the back of queens. Or apply a disk with super glue so we can apply a number. Makes me wonder.

Do I think painting queens is needed for control issues in especially AHB areas. You bet. I just wish the beekeeping industry could feel confident in knowing that there was a safe alternative, with testing, that beekeepers could use and KNOW no long term damage was being done.

Maybe one day, a beekeeper himself may take the time to produce a product that we beekeepers could use.

It makes me wonder when so many just say they use nail polish, or the lowest cost paint they could find. I challenge any of them to paint an area the size of a 12 inch area on their back and leave it on for the summer. Sounds like fun. Anyone up for the challenge? After-all, you make your queens do it for a lifetime.

Here was a good thread...

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=186198&highlight=paint

[bluegrass]

I am thinking about trying the glue on marking kits. Anybody use them and do the stay intact?

[honeyshack]

Thanks for your replies. After posting this thread I accidentally scrolled down and found simmillar threads and read them. Both this thread and the others had alot of information. Thanks for the links as well.
I saw the plunger at our local bee co-op and wondered if it would work well, thanks for the "reviews".
Valid points for marking and not marking.
We mark our cows for tracking and management purposes, albeit not a lifetime paint mark on the back but... We mark our chickens with leg tags not a lifetime paint but... Marking queens would be a useful management tool to manage a hive, in my limited opinion. Can't tag them with ear tags, can't ring them with a chicken ring, so marking is my only option.

Thanks for the suggestion to practice on drones. Will do.
Next question, I have queens with no idea on exact age. Some are now a year old some two, some superceded. I saw in different threads testors paint used.

Any health problems with that for an odd color for spotting older queens?
and the uniposca pens, do they last?

Thank you

[Ross]

Mine last 2-3 years at least. I haven't used one long enough to make the full 4 year cycle yet.

[AstroBee]

If you take one of those modern queen marking pens and apply it to your finger nail you will find that it takes some pressure to paint her.


Actually it takes very little pressure if done properly. I "prime" the pen before marking by repeatedly touching it to the back of my glove until paint is flowing and can be readily transferred (of course shake the pen well before starting). Once "primed" you barely need to touch the queen to leave the mark.

[fat/beeman]

maybe you might think its dumb=but try white out for different yrs cake coloring.
or am I off track? Don

[Beemaninsa]

I seem to be the odd man out but I had trouble paint pens from bee catalogs, I think POSCA? Paint came off the queens often and quickly. I tried a couple of pens. Others have good success with the pens. I use Testers model paint (Wal-Mart, hobby lobby). Stick a nail thru the bottle cap, then file the nail flat and smooth. Use the nail to mark the queens with. Never noticed a problem with the queens and it stuck pretty well. The bright reds oranges and greens really stand out well. The Tester model paint is much cheaper than the pens.

[BEES4U]

I ordered some pens from Mann Lake and they arrived dried out.
I took the pens to Staples in Oxnard Ca. and they said that they can order them
Some people do use white out.
Ernie

[BEES4U]

All of my breeder queens arrive with a numbered disk attached to the thorax. I have had one numbered disk dissappear.
Yes, it is very convenient to locate the breeder queen when I manipulate the nuc for the grafting!
Ernie

[Michael Palmer]

I use Testor's model paint. Cost is about $2/jar. I also buy a jar of thinner, a few drops of which are added to paint if it gets too thick.

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff61/frenchhill/scan0001-3.jpg

My paintbrush is a piece of Timothy grass. Free, and no shipping costs. :-) Need a new brush? Bend down and pick one up. Easily cleaned by pinching off the tip.

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff61/frenchhill/scan0002-2.jpg

Pick the queen up by her wings, and transfer to other hand. Always hold the queen by her thorax, not her abdomen. Holding her by her abdomen will cause some queens to faint. This is how you hold a queen for carrying her.

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff61/frenchhill/scan0003-3.jpg

To mark her, hold like this, and add a very small dot of paint to the center of her thorax. The paint will spread out into a nice disk.

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff61/frenchhill/scan0004-2.jpg

My marking set-up. Table, chair, and mating nucs.

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff61/frenchhill/scan0005-2.jpg

[BEES4U]

Can you please tell me how I can post photos on this web site?

There must be some information on this site .But, I have not located it to date.
Thank you
Ernie

[BerkeyDavid]

dumb question for Michael Palmer - do you sew weights into your feed bags or just use the plain bag to cover up hives you are working? I want to make up a few of those.

answer for Bee4 - post your pictures on a free web site like photo bucket then paste the link into your message. Or if you go to the Pictures forum you paste in the image link at the web site where the pic is posted (get this by right clicking on the image) and paste in from the image link in the reply box

[REDTRACTOR1]

You can get the marking pens at Durable Supply Company in Nashville Tenn. 866-354-9431 or www.durablesupply.com or www.markersupply.com . They have all the colors and each pen is about $2.50 each and that is much cheaper than the bee supply houses.
Dwight

[Michael Palmer]

dumb question for Michael Palmer - do you sew weights into your feed bags or just use the plain bag to cover up hives you are working? I want to make up a few of those.


Just plain bags. They're the inner cover for the 4 mating nucs in the box. I just fold it back as needed. Maybe use a small stone in windy weather.