Northern Michigan Package Bees

[jjallday]

Hello All,

I am getting into beekeeping and am looking for a good source for packaged bees or nucs for spring 2008. I am interested in Carnies or Buckfast as I am looking for bees that build up fast in spring.
I have a grower friend who wants to help me get a start in beekeeping and wants to pay for the packages if I use them to pollinate some of his apples. It is a good deal for me, but I want to make sure I have a good source for the bees so that I am not scrambling around this spring.
I am interested in the B Weaver Buckfasts, but from looking through some threads it looks like that may not be the way to go. Any thoughts? Would nucs be better than packages? Or would it matter. There is a good amount of early season forage in the area, so I hope they will build up by apple bloom.

Thanks,
Jason

[Ardilla]

These people (see link below) are affiliated with Superior Honey Farms in the U.P.

http://www.ziaqueenbees.com/

I think they sell only queens and nucs. I don't know anything in particular about their Yooper bees, but may be worth looking into.

[indypartridge]

Are you involved with any local beekeeping groups? If not, I highly recommend it. They are the best source for questions such as you're asking, because the answers depend a great deal on local conditions.
http://michiganbees.org/

That said, I doubt you'll be able to buy any locally produced nucs or packages in time for apple blossoms. Here in Indiana, it's usually late May before they are available.

If you order bees from The South, they are often available much earlier, but then you have to consider both your local weather and when the apples bloom in your area.

[Dan Williamson]

Hello All,

I am getting into beekeeping and am looking for a good source for packaged bees or nucs for spring 2008. I am interested in Carnies or Buckfast as I am looking for bees that build up fast in spring.
I have a grower friend who wants to help me get a start in beekeeping and wants to pay for the packages if I use them to pollinate some of his apples. It is a good deal for me, but I want to make sure I have a good source for the bees so that I am not scrambling around this spring.
I am interested in the B Weaver Buckfasts, but from looking through some threads it looks like that may not be the way to go. Any thoughts? Would nucs be better than packages? Or would it matter. There is a good amount of early season forage in the area, so I hope they will build up by apple bloom.

Thanks,
Jason

Hopefully you will be able to explain to your grower friend that packages will NOT make good pollinating units for his apples for spring of 2008. Now if he only has a couple of trees then that's fine. If he's looking for you to pollinate an entire orchard with those packages/nucs then he'll not get any significant pollination from them. As soon as there is brood in the hive, flight activity will drop off with the packages. The nucs could potentially be better than a package but either way there won't be enough bees present to do a QUALITY job of pollination for more than a few trees in my humble opinion.

Now if he wants the packages purchased in 2008 to pollinate the apples in spring 2009. That's a different story.

My Dad had an arrangement with a blueberry grower. The grower would buy the packages and my dad would manage them and could keep them after bloom. After explaining the lack of any significant pollination for a large blueberry area the guy was still interested. Why? Because he had gotten into a big rift with his normal pollinators and would rather lose money than to use the folks he had been using. Ok... .not my Dad's issue...the grower was informed of the issues and still chose to go that route. Great deal for my Dad.

Just make sure the grower understands. That is my point. If he's banking on an income producing crop of apples... he better find strong colonies NOT packages or Nucs...

[jjallday]

Dan,

The grower is bee savvy (kept them for years) and knows what he is getting (this was his idea). The blocks of apples on this farm are small and I will keep the bees there so they can pollinate next year. I hate to say this, but I have seen hives placed on farms for pollination that were nothing but nucs and the grower was NOT told and was charged the long buck for it.

The reason I was asking about sources for bees in Michigan is because I am interested in something beside Italians. Most of the beekeepers up here overwinter their bees in Florida, so I am not sure that the ones they are using, and selling, would be the best for me.

Thanks,
Jason

[Dan Williamson]

As long as the grower understands then its off your shoulders.

I think supplying weak colonies is standard practice with some beekeepers.

This past year I pollinated blueberries. I got a call from a grower when their regular beekeeper couldn't fill the contract he had promised. When I got there and did a tour of the area... I commented to the grower that there were only bees flying from about 60% of the colonies.

Well he got defensive and started saying that this guy had been their beekeeper for a long time etc..... so I decided to let my bees make the point.

My colonies were booming packed out 2 deep equivalents (some were 3 meds) full of bees. I dropped them off and got a call the next evening.

The woman said... Do you have anymore? I told her no... She had gotten the last of what I hadn't already rented. She said... "Those hives are the strongest hives we've had in 40 years. My husband can't believe it." Then she mentioned that the other beekeepers hives weren't flying much and asked what she should do... I simply said... Call your beekeeper and ask them to open hives for you while you sit in the truck and watch. I'll do the same so you can see into my colonies. I'll let YOU be the judge. She never did that but frankly she didn't really need to.

Now in my opinion, the colonies were what a pollinating unit should be. But in comparison to what they had sitting out there when I pulled up... (and what they had gotten in the past) my hives looked impressive. It was simply a matter of comparison.

Needless to say, they have already arranged for me to supply their entire 2008 needs. Word spread and I'm getting calls and visits from other growers.

Are my colonies superstars, a-typical, better than avg, etc? I don't think so. I do work hard at having a powerful colony for pollination and for making splits... . However, when your competition is dumping packages into boxes or putting nucs out as pollinator units... you don't have to try very hard to take the business.

[jjallday]

Glad to hear that folks take pride in the job they do. I work in the ag consulting business (cherries and apples) and hate to see it when guys get poor hives for pollination. I don't think that some growers really understand the importance of QUALITY pollination. I know a couple of guys who still do not rent bees. Up here we have sweet and tart cherries and apples. Insect pollination is crucial for the sweets and apples, and some even put them in the tarts.
I want to make sure that my friend does get the job done right with these nucs he will supply me. Instead of the typical 2-3 hives per acre I will have around 1 nuc/package per acre. Do you still think that this is not enough?

Thanks,
Jason

[tecumseh]

jjallday writes:
Would nucs be better than packages? Or would it matter.

tecumseh writes:
a nuc will always outperform a package (given that the queens are equivalent). sound like to me what should matter to you is the flavor of queen you wish to have in the bee hive. something that will overwinter well... which as you suggest likely means you don't desire to have italians. something that is not excessively aggressive and overwinters in a small cluster. I am not certain why you would think that one of Beneford's Buckfast wouldn't work for you???

why not contact (pm) john and sheri k and ask them what they might suggest. they are likely not just around the block but by beekeeping standards are pretty local. I think they may even punch out a nuc or so in the sping time.

and good luck and good beekeeping...

[jjallday]

I thought that Benefords Buckfasts may work for me, but I was not so sure after reading through these forums. Sounded like they could be darn aggressive and folks have had mixed results. This would not bother me so much but for their prices ($115). I am happy to pay for quality, but I would like more info on them (Weavers bees) up north.

Thanks,
Jason

[tecumseh]

yep you can be certain that beneford's product ain't cheap...

I have suggested any number of times on this forum that there is more than a bit of confusion generated by member using the 'weaver' name and not being totally accurate in stating which 'weaver' they might be discussing. and don't be confused (as seems to be the case of some member) that the two weavers (at one time there was three) are the same or their produces are equivalent.

anyway.... as I suggest in my prior post if I was U I would pm john and sheri k. they likely have much more information in regards to what kind of bee might thrive in your area and fit your particular needs.