Drawing out Mini Frames

[Chef Isaac]

It is often recomended to shake bees into mini mating nucs, close them up and put them in a cool place and feed so they can draw out the foundation.

What is the recomended time frame? I hear 24 hours or the bees will die. I hear up to 4 days.

Last year, I shook bees into my mating nucs, closed them up, put them in a cool place and fed syrup. I did this for 2 1/2 days.

I took them out the field, puleld the screen off and bees were falling off unto the ground and slowly moving away from the mating nuc.

did I leave them in too long?

[Velbert]

Sounds like they may have gotten hot or about smothered could they could have gotten stuck up in the syrup also.

when I place a queen cell in a nuc it usually will hatch with in 12 to 24 hours the new queen will get her pheromones at the end of the 3rd day after she hatched so mine are confined 4 days if on new foundation or built combs with no brood.

If there is brood the nuc is made up and I will leave them open when placed on location and let stay queen cell less over night.

if you don't want to make an extra trip back to the yard (This is the time when you use The Queen Cell protectors) place the Ripe Queen cell in very gentle and place where the brood is preferable along the top of the brood down just a bit so the bees will cluster around it and keep it warm

[JBJ]

For those of you who use these, do you use enough foundation to fill the frame or just a stater strip?

[Brandy]

I found it easier to use scrap foundation vs. the starter strip. With the mini's there's not much to attach the starter strip to, with, at etc.. At least with the foundation there's someplace for them to go. JMO

[bleta12]

For those of you who use these, do you use enough foundation to fill the frame or just a stater strip?

This year I tried some baby nucs. 1 inch strip of foundation is more than enough. You shake the bees in swarm box, use exluder to avoid drones, spray some syrup so they dont fly when you scoop 12 oz of them in a mini matting nuc, put a queen cell and store them for 3-4 days in a dark cool location. These nucs have plenty of ventilation.
There was no problem for them to start building comb.
You can attach the 1 inch starter strip which some melted wax, dadant sells a wax tube fastener that works fine.

After 3-4 days at the end of the day you move them to your matting yard and open the entrance.

The best ones were the one the Bee Works sells (Canada), they have more volume and you can stack them with ease.

Gilman

[jean-marc]

Ditto what Gilman said, although I used larger strips. The second year I cut the wax that hangs below the frames. I've the Mann lake ones and 2 of the 3 frames have extra room below them. The bees draw the frame out and fill that space. So I cut out that extra wax. It makes for extra room when stocking these nucs, so the bees do not get crushed when placing the frames back in.

I have not tried the Bee Works ones and I suppose Gilman you tried other ones?

Chef, I have to agree with Velbert. Either you over sprayed syrup on the bees or you placed to many bees in the nuc or you did both. But they smothered on way or the other. They did not stay too long.

Jean-Marc

[JBJ]

What about a strip of plastic foundation to get them going?

Gilman, are the Beeworks competitive enough in utility and price to warrant the added shipping costs? The dollar is pretty weak these days. How much bigger are the than Mann Lakes?

[Chef Isaac]

bleta said "dadant sells a wax tube fastener that works fine."

What are these?

[WVbeekeeper]

I'm sure you've seen it in the magazines. Mostly what I see it used for is
securing wax foundation into a grooved top bar. It's a hollow tube, a piece of
3/8" stainless steel tubing works fine for me, that is hammered or bent to
have a point on it. You put the tube into some melted wax, hold your finger over
the other end to create a vacuum and then release the melted wax onto the
foundation and into the groove in the top bar to kinda "glue" the foundation in
place.

http://beekeeperlinda.blogspot.com/2007/04/how-to-use-wax-tube-fastener.html

[jean-marc]

Chef:

It's a little device that holds molten wax. Save your money and get a spoon from work. Melt wax in one of those fancy stainless saucer pans and use the spoon to attach the foundation to the frame. These mini frames do not have a slot for the foundation. The frames do not have holes for wiring the foudation. Then the only option is to use molten wax that is drizzled along the foundation and frame. Of course you hold the frame upside down. The wax tube fastener is used mainly for comb honey production. Usually the foudation is wireless and usuallu the foudation is not wired to the frame.

JBJ, I'm sure plastic foundation would work just fine along with a hot glue gun.

Jean-Marc

[Michael Palmer]

For those of you who use these, do you use enough foundation to fill the frame or just a stater strip?

I use full sheets in my mini frames. Also horizontal wires. The frames are cut down standard frames, with grooved top and bottom bars. I glue the foundation in with the wax tube mentioned...from Kelley. ...always worker comb. Works great for me. Bees draw it out fast.

[Michael Palmer]

Does anyone else winter their mating nucs? It eliminates that step of restocking the nucs each spring, storing them in a cool place...etc, etc.

[Tillie]

Thanks for the referral to my blog about the wax tube fastener - there's also a video posted there on the wax tube fastener (my personal favorite!)

http://beekeeperlinda.blogspot.com/2007/04/how-to-use-wax-tube-fastener_26.html

Linda T in Atlanta

[Brandy]

"The frames do not have holes for wiring the foundation"

So, I just made a template for the three wires that span the frame, drill 3 little holes, leave 1/2" of the wire to extend through the top bar, bend over and call it done.

I've tried the starter strips and wax previously, made a mess, and not a very pretty site.

[bleta12]

What about a strip of plastic foundation to get them going?

Gilman, are the Beeworks competitive enough in utility and price to warrant the added shipping costs? The dollar is pretty weak these days. How much bigger are the than Mann Lakes?


The Beeworks has raised the price on these nucs to $16. Last year was $13.
Last year (2007) the Beeworks shipping was cheaper than Mann Lake's.
I would stick with 1 inch or so strip of foundation I had no problem whatsoever.
Beeworks volume i bigger by more than 1 frame, bigger feeding area, which makes it more self sustainable and does not need your attention as mutch as those of Mann Lake, which are a copy of Apidea from Germany.
Last year I had some problem with Apidea which I attribute to the size of the mini nuc.

For me the question is to find a way to get them cheaper.

I even have some (bee works) that I am overwintering, and if they make it, that may change a lot in my system. None of the Apidea are alive. that is another difference.
I have some of the 4 way half frame that Palmer uses and I am overwintering those, otherwise everything else is in 5 frame nucs, 10 frame and the big hives.

We had a break of the weather few days ago and that was their first chance to fly in some weeks.
Lets hope that we get more of those days, I think that makes a big difference.

Happy New Year to all.

Gilman

[Jon McFadden]

Making your own mini nucs is simple. The ones I make cost me $1 ea if you make all 16 you can get from a sheet.
I install a full sheet of foundation in the frames. Three of these will fit in a medium frame; two up and one upside down. The bees don't care. I put these frames in a strong hive to be drawn out. This eliminates the stress on the bees placed in the mini nuc. About two cups of young bees are placed in the mini nuc. At the end of the year, the bees are dumped out and they drift back to other hives.
Here is a link to some pics and instructions:
http://nordykebeefarm.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=46&PN=1
Jon

[bleta12]

Making your own mini nucs is simple. The ones I make cost me $1 ea if you make all 16 you can get from a sheet.
I install a full sheet of foundation in the frames. Three of these will fit in a medium frame; two up and one upside down. The bees don't care. I put these frames in a strong hive to be drawn out. This eliminates the stress on the bees placed in the mini nuc. About two cups of young bees are placed in the mini nuc. At the end of the year, the bees are dumped out and they drift back to other hives.
Here is a link to some pics and instructions:
http://nordykebeefarm.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=46&PN=1
Jon

What kind of styrofoam is that?, where can you get it and what is the expected life time?

Gilman

[Jon McFadden]

Hi Gilman,
Extruded foam is solid and doesn't exhibit the beads the other styrofoam does.
The sheet we bought came from Lowe's.
Jon

[danwyns]

In managing our nucs with mini frames we have found the use of "mother" hives to have several advantages including getting comb drawn, repairing failing nucs, supplying drones and ease of spring setup/autumn breakdown.
I am not sure if this is common practice, but it sounds like a different tactic from what Chief and others are doing, so I offer it to expand the discussion.

Our nucs have 5 - 1/2 width medium depth frames w/ plastic foundation. Mother hive boxes are regular medium depths with a center board running parallel to the ends that is recessed the same depth as end rebates to allow 2 rows of 10 mini frames. Using these mother boxes new nuc frames can be placed on any hive and are rapidly drawn/laid out in a good flow or w/feed.

Mother hives are overwintered as 2/3 story (40/60 frame). Once spring buildup is well underway (late august here) and there is plenty of brood these can then be broken down into nucs. A nuc gets 2 brood, 2 honey/pollen, 1 empty + .5 L feed + 1 cup bulk bees (in addition to the bees on the 5 frames) + queen cell and has its entrance sponged to prevent bee escape-- the hive can still "breath" through the steel mesh of the robbing screen. Nucs are then left in the shade until transport to yard and removal of sponge at dusk. First caging occurs after 3 weeks and every 3rd week thereafter.

Mating yards have a few mother hives throughout the mating season: these are generally configured as 1 fulldepth w/ green frames (provide adequate drones) + 1 or 2 mother hive boxes to provide surplus mini frames so that weak/failed nucs can be bolstered or rebuilt w/ brood/honey as needed when caging.

During the last caging of the season (early apr.) nucs frames are returned into
mother hive boxes and overwintered as 2/3 story hives (8/12 nucs = 1 hive) which are then easily broken down into nucs again in the spring.

Sorry if this was a roundabout way to answer the "drawing mini frames" question, but if you can modify a standard dimension box to accomdate your nuc frames drawing is greatly simplified and your nucs hit the ground at full speed in the spring and are easily overwintered.

dw

[fuzzybeekeeper]

Jon,

I read your page about getting 16 nucs from a single sheet of styrofoam. What do you use to "glue" them together?

Fuzzybeekeeper