How to remove Apistan strips in December?

[Lora]

Hello all,

I applied Apistan strips, hanging two strips in the brood chamber of my one hive back in October. I know (now) this was too late in the season to do this. I was optimistically hoping that I would have a good weather day when I could open the hive to remove them.

Now I have the problem of how to remove them. It is December in Connecticut and on a good day the temperatures go up to 45 in the middle of the day. I thought of two options:

1. Bring the hive into my tool shed, turn on a heater, and open the hive to remove the strips. All the bees may fly around, but I would close the shed door until they all found their way back inside, then put the hive back outside.

2. Leave the hive outside. On a warm day, put some type of tent or tarp around the hive, turn a heater on, remove the strips, put the hive back together, leaving the tent/tarp in place.

Does anyone have a better idea, suggestions or comments? I appreciate your help.

[Michael Palmer]

I see questions like this all the time. Beekeepers fearing the worst if they dare open their hives on anything but a perfect day. Bee are more resilliant than you think. I wonder how many management tasks get put off because the beekeeper read that you should only open a hive when it is sunny, calm, and above 60.


How would I remove the strips?

Remove the covers, crack up the top box (I'm assuming the strips are not in the top box from what you said about putting the hive back together), remove the strips, put the hive back together, cover. No problem. Even at your frigid temperature :-) of 45, the bees can handle it. I was transferring nucs into new boxes the other day, when it was 25. No problem. Only a few bees flew up, and the rest remained on the combs.

[Jim Fischer]

Not that anyone needs to "support" anything said by Micheal Palmer,
as his reputation precedes him, but I see this sort of concern prompting
people to wait far too long in starting their spring pollen-patty
feeding, which is a very big mistake in terms of impact on honey crop.

The most important beekeeping work I ever do is done in a parka.

Temps in the 40s are fine for quick openings and closings.

I would not pull frames out and wave them around, but
removing strips or tossing in pollen patties or fondant on the top
bars is not going to bother the bees.

I certainly would not make a daily habit of doing this, no one would.
But I wouldn't worry about doing it once every few weeks.

[Chef Isaac]

Funny thing you mention that Michael as the books say not to brood quens unless you have 75-80 degree weather. If I followed that rule, I would never have queens! :)

[Ravenseye]

How to remove Apistan strips in December?

Quickly! :);)

Make sure you have everything you need out there with you. I like to have a small pair of pliers or something to grab the tab on top of the Apistan strip because the bees often wax it in there tight.

Pop the top, pull the strips and put the house back together. Won't take but a few minutes and you're done.

[dickm]

Hi Lora,
I live in Danbury CT and would be glad to help. Tomorrow (Sat} looks like as good a day as we'll have. 203-743-0541 until 9 PM.

Dick Marron

[Barry Digman]

Hi Lora,
I live in Danbury CT and would be glad to help. Tomorrow (Sat} looks like as good a day as we'll have. 203-743-0541 until 9 PM.

Dick Marron


So Lora, did you get the strips out?
I'm thinking having Dick Marron show up on your doorstep to help with the strips would be like having Norm Abram from the New Yankee Workshop and the entire crew from This Old House show up to help you put a picture hanger on the wall, or maybe Tiger Woods offering to help with that slice. You're one lucky beekeeper.

[Ian]

>>hanging two strips in the brood chamber of my one hive back in October.

Do you know if the strips worked?

[CSbees]

You could remove the strips if it were 0 degrees out. The outer portion of the cluster is actually enveloped with this temperature. The bees on the outside of the cluster eventually move in to get warm and the warm ones move to take their turn on the outside. It will only take a maximum of about 15 seconds. That is perfectly fine.

[Lora]

Thanks to everyone for your replies. Thanks to Dick for your generous offer. I was busy on Saturday but am thinking one day early next week, which according to the forecast should be okay.

Lora

[bleta12]

Busy to take an apestan strip?
Let mi guess, the strip is still there because you were busy all this time. It was too late to put in October, you are still too late to take it out.

Today was the best weather in CT in 10 days, your next chance to have a weather like this is some time in March.
I guess you are new at beekeeping and by being critical I am trying to help you understand that there are some thinks in beekeeping that should be done in time, no more busy.
I hope you do better before and during next swarming season.

Please go tomorrow open that hive and take that strip. I is going to snow but you do it fast.

Good luck

Gilman




Thanks to everyone for your replies. Thanks to Dick for your generous offer. I was busy on Saturday but am thinking one day early next week, which according to the forecast should be okay.

Lora

[Maine_Beekeeper]

>>Let mi guess, the strip is still there because you were busy all this time. It was too late to put in October, you are still too late to take it out.

Yeah, Gilman sounds a little harsh. But know what? He is right.
One hive or 36 (like me) or 300+ (like Gilman plus all of the nucs, or have your numbers increased?) or 800+ in the case of Michael Palmer - procrastinating is the absolute worst thing you can do.

Lora, get the strips out. The absolute worst thing you could do for your bees and mine is leave the strips in all winter, letting the chemicals weaken and weaken and the mites build up an immunity to them and then reproduce with offspring that have increased immunity to Apistan (that's how it stops working) or should I say "stopped"? Your next spring mites would "eat your apistan strips for lunch" as we say up here.

Bees are relatively easy and fairly low maintenance. But that doesn't mean no maintenance, and if you introduce something into the hive, you should absolutely take responsibility for putting it in and taking it out on time and per the directions.

(next year use Apilife Var or Apiguard)

-Erin

[berkshire bee]

Quote"Lora, get the strips out. The absolute worst thing you could do for your bees and mine is leave the strips in all winter, letting the chemicals weaken and weaken and the mites build up an immunity to them and then reproduce with offspring that have increased immunity to Apistan (that's how it stops working) or should I say "stopped"? Your next spring mites would "eat your apistan strips for lunch" as we say up here."

Sorry to have to second that, but, If you read the directions on any of these treatments I believe they say to follow exactly. It would probably be better not to treat at all than to help build up a resistance in the mites to any given treatment. That being said (and repeated) Don't forget to wear your veil. Even if it's cold the bees will have a tendency to check out the disturbance. The last time I opened my hive in the cold I didn't have any smoker fuel. I popped the top and quickly peaked under the inner cover. Not a bee in sight. I pulled the inner cover and was prying on the spacer I was removing And it was like the elevator reached the top floor and the bees were getting out. I quickly got the inner cover back on, but if I hadn't worn my veil (and I almost didn't thinking I'll be in and out quick) I would have had at least a few stings to the face.

[Oldbee]

I posted a question like yours in the fall of 2006 and also got some comments about getting the strips out on time. That was in October around here though.

>"I live in Danbury, CT and would be glad to help..."--dickm. < Although one person can do it, getting some help with this is not a bad idea. I don't know how many or what size your boxes are but if they are full of honey they will be heavy. Having one person tilt them up and the other to pull the strips would eliminate having to set the boxes aside and perhaps breaking up the cluster [too much] if it's partially up there. Of course this would mean, according to 'berkshire bee', that the helper would need to be "protected" also.

[Lora]

and actually comprehending and taking in what one reads is better.

To Bleta12, berkshire bee and Maine beekeeper, but especially bleta12, if you read my post I did have a plan for removing the strips, actually two plans. I asked for comments or alternative suggestions.

So it is totally rude to suggest I had no intention to remove the strips and that I was a procastinator. I am presuming you did not fully read, understand, and comprehend what I originally posted because, probably, you are all men and I am female. Men usually have problems with listening to and understanding what women say with 100% efficiency.

Lora

[Dave W]

Lora . . .

Please reconsider YOUR comments. Nothing that YOU said offered any help to anyone.

Didnt you ASK for help?
That's ALL that was given!

[Jeffzhear]

"Men usually have problems with listening to and understanding what women say with 100% efficiency."

Lora

stereotypically speaking maybe? :)

[bleta12]

Hi Lora,

I admit that I could have been more gentle in my remarks, but this is my stile and I dont mean bad. I was just trying to help you. I did not have your gender in mind, only Varroa.
If you think that we are totally rude, wait and see how rude Varroa is.
If we got your attention on this, I think this is better for your bees, you can count on all of us for an honest advice, if you ask it.
Don't focus on the stile, only on the substance.

Please let us know how your hives are doing.

Gilman


and actually comprehending and taking in what one reads is better.

To Bleta12, berkshire bee and Maine beekeeper, but especially bleta12, if you read my post I did have a plan for removing the strips, actually two plans. I asked for comments or alternative suggestions.

So it is totally rude to suggest I had no intention to remove the strips and that I was a procastinator. I am presuming you did not fully read, understand, and comprehend what I originally posted because, probably, you are all men and I am female. Men usually have problems with listening to and understanding what women say with 100% efficiency.

Lora

[Barry Digman]

Bwhahahahahha

Lora, yer gonna fit right in.

Did you get the strips out?

[Oldbee]

Yeah! Give em heck Lora!! And I was the Angel! don't forget!, lol. I hope the "removal" went well!

[dickm]

Lora,
These guys jump on procrastinators because they all do it about something. Perhaps you don't know that the apistan strips were made useless in some parts of ther country by over use and improper use. The mites became immune. Commercial 'keepers were using the chemical, in their own concoctions by the shovelful.
As the strips dwindle in what they emanate {by leaving them in} the mites still alive may start a survivors group. The likelihood of your one hive in this population of millions of hives making a difference is pretty small. They are not breeding now, anyway. Use a different treatment next time. Welcome to this salty bunch. And I'm not just saying that because you're a woman.

Dick Marron

[Brent Bean]

Lora:
After you get your Apistan strips out of your hives one recommendation I would make is don’t plan on using them again. There are many other mite treatments that are more affective than Apistan which has proven to have become ineffective due to mite resistance. Randy Oliver has written a series of articles for American Bee Journal on mite control that don’t introduce hard chemicals into you hive like Apistan. He also has a web page where you can find this information. I have been having good luck controlling both varroa and Tracheal mites using integrated pest management like screen bottom board, powdered sugar, drone comb and Mite-Away II.
As far as someone implying someone’s gender could have a bearing on beekeeping skills is preposterous many of our leading researchers are women. Stay with it we all make mistakes it’s just a part of a learning process.

[berkshire bee]

Lora, Sometimes we take a beating when we ask a question, and have to take the good with the bad. People around here are just trying to help each other out and Dick Marron's and my last post just emphasized the mite resistance. I did suggest you wear your veil. There are many female beekeepers who are way smarter than I am and I make no distinction between male or female. I've been put in my place before and appreciate the honest answers. Welcome to the forum and the question everyone is waiting to hear the answer to is How did it GO? :)

[bleta12]

You are right, the reason we all were a bit tough on Lora is the fact that we all have done those mistakes, treating late with the wrong chemical and taking the chemical later than recommended. If there is anyone that has not done those mistakes I would like them to let us know.

We cannot change the past, psychologically that is the reason that we were a bit harsh on Lora, we were being harsh on our one mistakes.
Probably Dr. Morris can give us an professional physiological explanation of our actions.
We are all humans Lora and making mistakes is human, we should learn from the mistakes of the others because we dont have time to make all the mistakes ourselves.

Gilman



Lora,
These guys jump on procrastinators because they all do it about something. Perhaps you don't know that the apistan strips were made useless in some parts of ther country by over use and improper use. The mites became immune. Commercial 'keepers were using the chemical, in their own concoctions by the shovelful.
As the strips dwindle in what they emanate {by leaving them in} the mites still alive may start a survivors group. The likelihood of your one hive in this population of millions of hives making a difference is pretty small. They are not breeding now, anyway. Use a different treatment next time. Welcome to this salty bunch. And I'm not just saying that because you're a woman.

Dick Marron

[Dick Allen]

Come on you guys! Lighten up, for crying out loud. :rolleyes: The standard treatment recommendation for Apistan strips is two brood cycles or 6 weeks. The original post made on December 6 stated the strips were placed in October. Now even if they’d been put in at the earliest on October 1 the suggested time for removal would have been a month and a half later or mid November. It seems that on December 6 they might have been left in for another brood cycle. So what. It is one thing if they are removed a couple of weeks late. It is quite another if they are left in all winter which some people have done. I think it will make not one iota of difference, but of course that’s just my opinion, FWIW. BTW Lora, have you gotten the strips out yet? :)
(and yet another BTW, I personally don't use them.)

[Hillside]

You have to get the strips out or the mites will develop resistance to Apistan and Apistan will stop working on the mites that would build resistance if they weren't already resistant, but the mites are already resistant to Apistan and Apistan already doesn't work because of the resistance that's going to build up if those strips stay in.

Or something like that. :) :) :)

Proper beekeeping is so confusing. Male or female, I would expect everyone to have a headache by now.

[Allen Martens]

The standard treatment recommendation for Apistan strips is two brood cycles or 6 weeks

I've never quite understood this recommendation seeing varroa likes drone brood and two drone brood cycles are more like 7 weeks.

Lora, if October is too late for treatment in Connecticut, I'd never get fall apistan treatment done in Manitoba.

[Lora]

This was last week on Wednesday, on a day when it was 45 outside. It was very easy to do. I wore my veil (as always). I just slid the top box over and took them out. They were in for just under 8 weeks.

FYI to all, I do understand the reason for removing the strips, regarding the development of resistance, that is why I wanted to get them out. I just didn't know how okay it is to open the hive in colder weather or how best to do this. Hence my post.

To Alan W, in my opinion the posts I objected to were not, for the most part, helpful.

To Maine beekeeper, bleta12 and berkshire bee, and the others who replied, thanks for your honest comments. I don't think it is so much a matter of thinking women are less capable or intelligent, rather it is a matter of communication and how one comes across. You might want to think about the fact that I didn't realize you all were male until I deduced it from the tone and quality of your replies to me. It turns out I was right. How do you think I knew this?

For my part I just don't know a lot about bees, so I appreciate your help. And I'm glad my strips are out.

Lora

[Maine_Beekeeper]

I'm very glad to hear you got the strips out.
I've seen way too many left in for the winter - always because the beekeeper is afraid to hurt the bees by taking the strips out in the cold.

There are more women on this forum than you think.
:o
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j37/Maine_Beekeeper/Georgia027.jpg

[Dick Allen]

Early on in the history of varroa in North America, before Apistan strips were manufactured, mites could be killed by using the pesticide Mavrik. One of the ways of using Mavrik was to soak plywood or cardboard strips in it and place those in the hive. However, it was/is difficult to determine and control an exact amount of the active ingredient fluvalinate that gets released into a hive. With the introduction of Apistan strips, a reasonably accurate amount of fluvalinate could be released into the hive at a known rate. When Apistan came along, the procedure for using strips soaked in Mavrik was no longer approved.

But, Apistan strips to treat large numbers of hives was expensive compared to buying a bucket of Mavrik. So, many of the large commercial operations continued using Mavrik. In fact there have been, from time to time, open discussions right here on these very Forums giving advice on how to make your own illicit Mavrik strips.

It is unfortunate that some smaller beekeepers do leave Apistan strips in longer than recommended, but it should be clear to most anyone where the resistance to fluvalinate really comes from.