Further questions on natural cell / small cell

[JAK]

Hello all, been lurking for awhile now, just a question...

I was following an earlier thread on natural vs small cell, and I was wondering if a flat sheet of plastic (coated with wax) was used in the frame, in lieu of a patterned large or small cell foundation, would the bees then draw it out as natural cell?

Not having bees yet (I'd like to take the plunge soon to get the free shipping from Brushy Mountain, but vacillating with no small cell full plastic frames, any ideas would be welcome) I was wondering if the bees wouldn't just make up their own mind and build whatever they feel is necessary?

Let me know any thoughts, yea or nay. Thanks for this resource, it's great to dip your toes into a beekeepng course, and then still be able to keep the excitement alive with sites like this. Keep up the good work all.

Thanks,

John

[Michael Bush]

>I was following an earlier thread on natural vs small cell, and I was wondering if a flat sheet of plastic (coated with wax) was used in the frame, in lieu of a patterned large or small cell foundation, would the bees then draw it out as natural cell?

Maybe. Probably not unless the wax is pretty thick as they can't work the plastic. It's easy enough to make blank wax sheets, but those who have used them and those who have timed them against just a starter strip say the bees are slower to draw them. I'd just use a starter strip of wood. Either use Popsicle sticks or cut strips of wood off of a one by that are the thickness of the groove in a grooved top bar. Or just run the top bars through the table saw and cut a 45 on each side before you assemble. All of these will work better than a plain wax sheet and a plain wax sheet will work better than a wax coated plastic sheet.

>Not having bees yet (I'd like to take the plunge soon to get the free shipping from Brushy Mountain, but vacillating with no small cell full plastic frames

The Mann Lake PF120 and PF100s are plastic frames with 4.95mm cell size on them.

> any ideas would be welcome) I was wondering if the bees wouldn't just make up their own mind and build whatever they feel is necessary?

If you let them.

[JAK]

Mr Bush,

Thanks for the info. Looks like I'm going to try wooden frames with a starter strip. I've been reading a lot of the forums and was glad to hear that some people have tried the non-imprinted wax coated plastic. Disappointed to hear that it's drawn slowly.

As a brief aside, has anyone tested and/or figured out the insulation value (equivalent R-value) of honey filled comb? How much thermal protection would/could it offer the bees during the winter.

Cheers,

John

[ScadsOBees]

It seems that I've read somewhere (forgive me, I don't remember...ABJ, hive and honeybee, beesource?) that if you give them a plain sheet, unpatterned, that they have don't draw it out right and have trouble with it.

Has anybody tried and had similar results?

[Michael Bush]

>I've been reading a lot of the forums and was glad to hear that some people have tried the non-imprinted wax coated plastic.

I was talking about plain sheets of wax. You wet a board in brine and dip it in wax and peel off the wax.

[spunky]

Mr Bush,

Thanks for the info. Looks like I'm going to try wooden frames with a starter strip. I've been reading a lot of the forums and was glad to hear that some people have tried the non-imprinted wax coated plastic. Disappointed to hear that it's drawn slowly.

As a brief aside, has anyone tested and/or figured out the insulation value (equivalent R-value) of honey filled comb? How much thermal protection would/could it offer the bees during the winter.

Cheers,

John

What I did this year was use plastic cell ( from Brushy mountain ) as guides, and 1 inch wax starter strips , alternate the 2, so the bees will draw relatively strait comb.

Later on you can readjust frames in places you need.

I will try some of the mann lake frames this year also

[JAK]

Thanks everyone for your responses.

M.B.> I was talking about plain sheets of wax. You wet a board in brine and dip it in wax and peel off the wax.

I see, this sounds like a more straight-forward way. To do the same with a plastic sheet would be a little overkill, I guess. Why use plastic when available wax will suffice, especially if bees draw the wax better than wax coated plastic.

Spunky> What I did this year was use plastic cell ( from Brushy mountain ) as guides, and 1 inch wax starter strips , alternate the 2, so the bees will draw relatively strait comb.

I was planning on getting 2 packages, throwing them in their own medium super-8 hive (is that a tm hotel reference?) with just frames and starter strips. In the bee courses that I've taken (2), we've always had drawn comb available, starting naked is a little different. Looking at the way you used plastic cell makes sense, kind of like a gentle border reminder. As a newbie, I'm wondering if it would make more sense to set up this kind of "gentle border" reminder. Or, as I'm more apt to do, save my pennies, wing it and see what happens. Probably burr comb and some messy other comb until it gets straightened out.

Scads> It seems that I've read somewhere ... that if you give them a plain sheet, unpatterned, that they have don't draw it out right and have trouble with it.

That stinks. I'm sympathetic to the starter strips and letting the bees do as they will, but don't want to make too many problems for myself. Maybe a combination of a snap-in, fully drawn wax coated plastic (small cell) that's only like 3/4 inch long, to get the bees started. Although consensus seems to be, leave the bees be and all will end well.

Thanks for everyone's input, appreciate the feedback and information.

Cheers,

JAK

[mudlake]

I have read everything I can about small cell. There is lots and I mean lots type small cell in search if you have lots of spare time or don't need sleep. Go to the web and type in SuperCell.. I have ordered two boxes from SuperCell. Should be here today. Good Luck Tony