Too Early to think about next spring or not?

[Lanier74]

It may be a little early for me to be thinking about this but I want to try to have my act together. For my first year I throughly enjoyed having the one hive and now a second weak hive that I am trying to sustain. Next spring I plan on getting at least one or two more hives going but do not want to start with a package like I did this year as I would rather get a little quicker start. I have one very strong hive with two deeps on it that I could likely take 4 or 5 frames from and make a split but I was hoping to get a honey crop from them this year so I have almost decided to just purchse one or two nucs and leave the hive intact and not take an bees What are others ideas on either the split or getting a new nuc and anyone know of a good place to buy nucs in NC that are healthy and disease free. Thanks

[BigDaddyDS]

It's never too early to think about your future plans! Afterall, you should be ahead of your bees. If you're always reacting to THEIR actions, you're too late!

In my opinion, when buying bees and equipment and all things being equal and in good condition from trusted sellers, I prefer to buy:
1) Complete hives
2) Nucs
3) Drawn comb
4) Collected swarms
5) Package bees

Complete hives are a no-brainer. You can inspect the overall condition and health of the hive before purchase. You can look at brood pattern. You can inspect frames, comb and other woodenware. Basically, they're ready to get to work. Plunk them down and let 'em go, essentially. If you're buying from someone with a good reputation, this seems to me to be the least risky way to buy bees.

Nucs are similar to complete hives, but nucs provide you with a little less data to decide your purchase on. You can see brood pattern and BASIC overall condition. Frames should be no older than 3 years. The nuc boxes themselves will usually need to be returned to the seller for deposit, so think of it as a "book cover"; that is, don't judge by it. Nucs will give you a "hint" of what the complete hive will do, but aren't the whole story by any stretch.

Drawn comb seems out of place on this list, doesn't it? But, the more friends and family know that you're a beekeeper, the greater the likelyhood that you'll get a call to capture a swarm or do a removal. And, once you do, your new found bees will need a home. As the story goes, it takes 10 pounds of stores to build out 1 pound of wax foundation. And that's why Drawn Comb makes it on to my list. The quicker your new bees have a home, the faster the queen will lay, and the more brood you'll have, and the more bees she'll make, and hence, the more honey you'll have. (They don't call Drawn Comb the beekeeper's greatest asset for nothing!)

Collected swarms are next on my list of desirables. Full of honey and traveling with a fresh queen, these girls are ready to get down to business! They're a comb building powerhouse that's looking for a place to happen! On the downside, they are an unknown quantity. Could they be hiding foulbrood? Maybe. Mites? Probably. Africanized? Possibly, depending on where you're located. But, to me, the price is right and worth the risk.

Lastly, packaged bees. Sure, you got them from a trusted name in bee breeding. (You did, didn't you?) They're in reasonably good health. (No thanks to the USPS, but that's another rant.) But, they've been probably been assembled, meaning they've been shaken off of frames and into a box. They aren't "swarmy", so they're not full of honey and ready to build comb. So, a lot of their nectar collection will be used to draw out their own foundation, if you're not putting them on to already drawn comb. Almost undoubtedly, the queen isn't from the same hive. The chances are "okay" that she'll be accepted, but her laying pattern is unknown to you. Packaged bees are a late starter that almost guaranteed to produce little to no honey, in my opinion. They're not my first choice in bees.


And, somewhere between purchasing Complete Colonies and Nucs, in my opinion, is making an increase hive, or a split, with your own bees. If you have more than one hive, you can decide which bees have the best tendencies and production. You're promoting your own local stock of bees; one that is best suited for your local conditions. And, depending on your bees characteristics, you may HAVE to split them to keep them from swarming naturally. But, in my opinion, depending on your local conditions, one or two splits early in the year shouldn't hamper their honey production too badly, especially if you already have drawn comb.

Good luck to you, and keep planning for next year. Stay ahead of your bees! (Sorry about the length of the reply. I was bored.)
DS

[sierrabees]

Too Early? No. It could be too late though. Fortunately you don't have many hives to worrey about, but I generally feel that preperation for spring starts about August. This year due to an early dearth of nector I should have started preparing for next spring about the first or middle of July and am paying for it now by having far too many hives that will need help.

In your position, it sounds like preperation will mostly consist of building equipement, wiring frames, and making sure that you have everything ready that you want to put on the ground next year. This is the time for that.

[Bizzybee]

You should be able to start feeding somewhere around the end of January up there. That should give em a good kick start. If you get that done the maple bloom will get them up to strength. Take the queen with some brood and stores, maybe about 4 frames worth. Split them off to a new hive and let the home make a new queen. That will prevent a swarm from your strong hive but leave it strong so it makes a good crop for you, provided nature cooperates? And a new hive strong enough to possibly make a little for you also. (It's not just that simple always and you could have problems with the old hive robbing out the new one, having all the field bees return to the old hive. Search the forums on how to make splits and see the "hows" and ups and downs. There always more than one way to skin a cat. You'll be an ole pro before long but can find some good starting points here.)

The weak hive may surprise you so keep an eye on them also. Second year queens have a way of shining above the rest sometimes. So don't be to quick to write them off! You may get to do the same thing with them. I would almost bet on it provided they make the winter.

Good luck!!!

[shughes]

I agree with BigDaddy on all his points.

There are several nuc producers out in Statesville,NC which is really close to you. I bought mine from John Redmond. You can also watch the NC agriculture review for hives, http://www.ncagr.com/paffairs/AgReview/class/10-07bees.htm There is currently some beehives for sale.

/me just noticed you posted a ad in the wanted section...see, you are already a step ahead ;)

[Lanier74]

Hey Thanks all. Especially bigdaddy. I will take all the information I can get. Sounds like for now I need to get all my equipment ready. I may end up trying both a split and either a nuc or a new hive but likely the nuc as I am not as needy on the honey but rather enjoy watching them work and build their home although I do hope to get a little honey this year.
To sirreabees: I think I may be ok on the feed as I fed them most of the summer with our poor weather this year and they have pelnty of stores and even this week our temps are still in the low 60s so they are still bringing in pollen and yes...I am in the process now of getting all my hardware ready for the coming spring.

To bizzybee, sounds good I will probablly start feeding and have them good and strong so a split will work. What is the recommendation for a queen in the new split...leave them with eggs and let them raise their own or buy a queen and introduce her and get a jump start on the brood? Also, you said my weak hive may surprise me..to be honest it will surprise me if it makes it as when I got it a few weeks ago they had absolutly no stores and no brood...I was not even sure they had a queen as there was only about a large fist full of bees, but I have been feeding them since we have still had some 60-70 degree days and they have brouht in some pollen and saving some sugar syrup and last week I found both some capped and uncapped brood so I guess I will keep them fed through the winder and hope for the best.

To shughes: yes I put that ad in the agrucutlrure review and got alot of response from it. Being new I was willing to take what I can get my hands on and I have acquired a great deal of both equipment and hardware, some of which is in prefect shape and some needs a little attention but I will have time this winter to take care of that. After ready many of the post here though I becae a little concerned with all the possible problems using used equipment but it all seems to be healthy with only the wax moths present in some of the old foundation. The bees on the othe hand is what I was wondering about. I have gotten several calls but just wanted a little guidence on where I may find some of the healthiest bees but it seems I may just have to go and inspect them before I buy.

Again thanks all for the information...I will take all I can get.

[Bizzybee]

You will be leaving behind most of the brood with the home hive. Be sure to check though whats in those frames. I like to make sure that there are some eggs in there along with the larva. Just in case they drag their feet a little on getting started. That way you are assured they will have young larva for them to use. They will find what they need. As for the new queen? That's up to you. If you're happy with the performance of the hive then why not save a few bucks and let them make a queen. It won't cause enough of a set back to mean much if that's all that bothers you about having them make one. She should start laying about the time your last brood in the hive are hatching off.

Unless you were feeding down here where we live, all the bees shut down during this drought we've had.

That sounds like a pretty small colony you have there, maybe a frame or half? You might want to move them to a nuc if you have one and the weather is permitting. Or possibly choke down the hive with a division board if you don't have a nuc. Most of the beetles and moths are gone here now, but a few are around. Not sure about there but probably the same. So you might want to throw those extra frames from the hive in the freezer if you have room until you open the hive back up later to the bees. Assuming they do make it. It's kinda like playing golf, you always got make a plan for the next shot even if it doesn't land where you want it.

[Robert Hawkins]

I think what Bizzy said was to let your queen start laying, then remove her to the new hive/nuc. Let the bees raise a new queen from what she laid.

At least that's the way I read his post.

Hawk

[Jeffzhear]

"It's never too early to think about your future plans! Afterall, you should be ahead of your bees. If you're always reacting to THEIR actions, you're too late!...DS"

Those are wise words. The more you read this forum, the smarter you become and you realize how many things you need to do ahead of time to be prepared. I've altered my plans considerably to incorporate the knowledge I've gained from here, much to the benefit of my honeybees! Thanks to all here, and I mean everyone that has offered any advice.:)

[Bizzybee]

[quote=Robert Hawkins;276519]I think what Bizzy said was to let your queen start laying, then remove her to the new hive/nuc. Let the bees raise a new queen from what she laid.

I think that was my intent :)

I'm not big on replacing my bees every year with purchased bees. I have plenty of fine bees to choose from for making new ones. Unless you plan to buy religiously from someone (and the same source every year) that you know has a bang up program. And they can provide you with the queens you need when you need them. You will never know what you have in your hives.