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JBJ
11-19-2007, 02:21 PM
This seems like an area worthy of continued discussion and research in light of recent findings of bacteria associated with bees. Most research that is readily available tends to deal with only the pathogenic varieties, In fact it can be difficult to convince some of the idea of probiotic or beneficial bacteria. Here are a few questions that I would love to explore:

What are the factors affecting microbial population dynamics (tylan)?

Are there certain species found in greater abundance in very healthy bees?

What strain of Ecoli was found to inhibit foulbrood?

Also the brass tacks on which varieties live in, on, and around honeybees?

Probably a lot for one thread ....however this area could lead to some new breakthroughs and understanding of our precious bees.

Michael Bush
11-19-2007, 06:58 PM
Bacteria found in healthy bee gut and hive:

Bifidobacterium animalis
Bifidobacterium asteroides
Bifidobacterium coryneforme
Bifidobacterium cuniculi
Bifidobacterium globosum
Lactobacillus plantarum
Lactobacillus sp. (probably all but there are both general references and specific ones for Lactobacillus bifidus and Lactobacillus acidophilus)

If you want references simply try a search on any of these plus honeybee or bee. There are many.


Here are a few of them:


http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6TD6-4D98KM5-2&_user=10&_coverDate=11%2F15%2F2004&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=6802f9ec81dd2483e31faf4c34d5758d

Oxytetracycline as a predisposing condition for chalkbrood in honeybee

"Antibiotics, particularly oxytetracycline, have been discussed as a possible predisposing condition in the appearance of chalkbrood in the honeybee (Apis mellifera L.). Nevertheless, the scientific data to support this belief have been insufficient. We have developed a method to study the effects of this antibiotic as a predisposing factor under different circumstances. We conclude that oxytetracycline does not increase the risk of chalkbrood in susceptible worker brood in the short or mid-term."

" ... use of antibiotics in the
honeybee can upset the balance of intestinal microflora, favoring the ..."


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=15539925&dopt=Citation


http://web.uniud.it/eurbee/Proceedings/Diseases.pdf

"During a study aimed to characterize the intestinal microflora of honeybee larvae
and adults, we found that some lactic acid bacteria inhibit in vitro the growth of these
pathogens. These bacteria, belong to the genus Lactobacillus, are normal inhabitants of
the gut of honeybees and are GRAS (Generally Regarded As Safe).
Strains of this genus have been shown to have important metabolic and protective
functions in the gastrointestinal tract, interfering with enteric pathogens and
maintaining a healthy intestinal microflora."


http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1574-6968.1997.tb12678.x

"Emerging adult bees acquire intestinal microflora by food exchange with other bees in the colony and through consumption of pollen. Biochemical contributions of microorganisms to honey bees; the role of microorganisms in the conversion, enhancement, and preservation of pollen stored as bee bread in comb cells; and the production of antimycotic substances by molds and Bacillus spp. from honey bee colonies that are resistant to the fungal disease, chalkbrood, are discussed. An association of Bacillus spp. with bees including honey bees, stingless bees, and solitary bees from tropical and temperate zones appears to have evolved in which female bees inoculate food sources with these bacteria whose chemical products contribute to the elaboration and/or protection from spoilage of food that is stored in the nest."


http://iussi.confex.com/iussi/2006/techprogram/P1982.HTM

Age-dependent changes in intestinal microflora of honeybee

"Remi Kasahara1, Jun Nakamura2, Yoshikazu Koizumi3, Ayako Mitsui3, and Masami Sasaki4. (1) Graduate School of Agriculture, Tamagawa University, Machida, Tokyo, 1948610, Japan, (2) Honeybee Science Research Center, Tamagawa University, Machida, Tokyo, Japan, (3) Environmental Engineering Center Co., Ltd., Machida, Tokyo, 1948610, Japan, (4) Laboratory of Entomology, Faculty of Agriculture, Tamagawa University, Machida, Tokyo, 1948610, Japan

The intestinal microflora of honeybee was investigated by means of the PCR-DGGE (denaturing gradient gel electrophoresis) method based on the sequence-specific separation of PCR-derived rRNA gene amplicon, which have proven useful in analyses of wide ranged studies in microbial ecology. Entire intestinal contents of adult honeybees were removed with gut wall under sterile conditions and the whole genomic DNA was isolated. PCR was used to amplify 16S rRNA genes from the DNA with a set of bacterial specific GC-338F and universal primers. The former one contains a 40 base GC-rich sequence at the 5'-end. The result of DGGE profiles and the DNA sequence analyses confirmed that the intestinal microflora had already existed in the newly emerged workers (day 0), however, it was very simple at day 0 and consisted of only one or two common bacteria. The DNA sequence of one of those showed the homology to Lactobacillus alvei strain 1G2 with 97% similarity. Then the microflora tended to be complex with age, and in the foragers, the composition of bacteria was varied besides the several common ones. The age dependent changes in higher diversity of the intestinal microflora in foragers are probably due to the higher accessibility to the sources of bacteria, namely foods, nestmates, combs, and outside food sources. We discuss the effects of nutritional status and trophallaxis with other nestmates on the individual intestinal microflora, as well as the effects of season, location and food sources on the colony level intestinal microflora."

http://aem.asm.org/cgi/content/full/70/10/6197

"The genus Bifidobacterium includes gram-positive, pleomorphic, and strictly anaerobic bacteria, which are major constituents of the intestinal microflora of humans, of other warm-blooded animals, and even of honeybees"

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?&artid=154539

"The other probe, BAN, was able to detect a group of Bifidobacterium species isolated exclusively from blood-warm animals and honeybees (B. animalis, B. asteroides, B. coryneforme, B. cuniculi, and B. globosum), as well as two species isolated from sewage of uncertain origin (B. minimum and B. subtile)"

http://cmr.asm.org/cgi/content/full/19/1/12

"It is the subject of some speculation and debate as to when organisms currently in the genus Hafnia were first isolated. In 1919, L. Bahr worked on a bacterium that he designated "Bacillus paratyphi-alvei," an organism reputedly pathogenic for bees but not mice or guinea pigs (121). One of Bahr's apparently authentic "Bacillus paratyphi-alvei" strains (referred to as "Paratyphus alvei") was subsequently characterized in 1954 as belonging to a new group of enteric bacteria for which Møller coined the name "Hafnia group" during a systematic investigation of amino acid decarboxylase patterns among members of the family Enterobacteriaceae (89). Some groups subsequently questioned the legitimacy of this name in light of the fact that Bahr's strains differed in some biochemical characteristics from those described by Møller. However, Møller considered that Bahr's strain should be regarded as the type species of Hafnia, and he suggested the name Hafnia alvei."

"The specific epithet in the name Hafnia alvei is derived from the Latin noun alveus, meaning beehive, with "alvei" meaning "of a beehive." Ewing (33) questioned the epithet "alvei," stating that the name implied that these bacteria had something to do with bees or beehives although they did not. However, H. alvei has been recovered on occasion from the intestines of honeybees (Apis mellifera) as well as from honey, and several of these strains are included in the BCCM (Brussels, Belgium) collection (125)."

JBJ
11-19-2007, 11:31 PM
Thanks MB! I will wade through links shortly.

It would be great to be able to inoculate with the right strains and confer some disease resistance and better nutrient assimilation.

Michael Bush
11-21-2007, 08:26 AM
Here are a few more:

Bartonella sp.
Gluconacetobacter sp.
Simonsiella sp.

sierrabees
11-21-2007, 10:09 AM
<It would be great to be able to inoculate with the right strains and confer some disease resistance and better nutrient assimilation.>
__________________
When we build nucs using bees from survivor colonies we are doing just that, although in an unconcrolled manner. However I don't worry about the control factor since I am convinced that the more control we humans exert the more we mess things up. When we start selecting our starter bees for other factors than survival is when we start getting weakened but production oriented stock which is what we see a lot of today.

jt9610
01-23-2011, 12:18 AM
Michael has provided a great resource here. Is there anyone who has published a book that summarizes the recent findings about microbes in the honeybee and the honeybee hive? I tried to find such a book but am coming up empty. My guess is it will be a chapter buried in a broader book. The Idiot's Guide has a page or two but no real information. At this point someone will have done a good review but I can't find it.

Michael Bush
01-23-2011, 02:05 AM
If you search on:
research microbes honeybees Gilliam

You'll find a lot of research by Martha Gilliam. Leave off the Gilliam you'll find a little more, but not much since she seems to have done most of the research.

Some examples:
http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/ar/archive/aug98/bees0898.htm
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1574-6968.1997.tb12678.x/full
http://www.springerlink.com/content/68g10110r6g70467/

These are more are listed here:
http://www.beeuntoothers.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=16&Itemid=23

sqkcrk
01-23-2011, 06:28 AM
And what does one do w/ this information? And how? Knowledge is a wonderful thing, but how does onme apply it? Or should we just be aware of it?

Keith Jarrett
01-23-2011, 08:46 AM
At this point someone will have done a good review but I can't find it.

Hang on to your skivvies, News will be come via ABJ or BC soon. :)

JBJ
01-23-2011, 12:23 PM
"Hang on to your skivvies, News will be come via ABJ or BC soon."
Today 12:28 PM KJ

Cant wait!! This area of research has really blossomed since this thread was started. It is almost like somebody out there is listening;)

"And what does one do w/ this information? And how? Knowledge is a wonderful thing, but how does onme apply it? Or should we just be aware of it? " sqkcrk

Beneficial microbes are having a huge positive impact in many areas of agriculture. They have a role to play in disease control/prevention, enhancement of growth rates, and nutrition. The right microbes could be used to inoculate the hive and the bee gut to aid colony health and diet.

KQ6AR
01-23-2011, 01:07 PM
Hi John,
This is a good topic. I think about it all the time, but not from such a technical point of view. Every chemical we put into the hives kills some of the things the bees might need.

Ramona
01-23-2011, 01:32 PM
I put together a list of references from material I've gathered over the past few years on microbes and bees as well as some on microbes and other insects and humans. Most have links for downloading.

http://www.beeuntoothers.com/index.php/resources/microbe-refs

One of my favorites is "The Fungus Growing Ants of North America" (1907)(listed under "other symbiotic relationships"). Over 100 years ago it was understood that some ants engage in microbial farming for their food supply! We've known since Martha Gilliam's work (1970's-1990's) that pollen has to ferment properly to be a viable food source for the bees and that bees also engage in microbial farming.

Enjoy the links!

Ramona

rhaldridge
09-06-2013, 03:51 AM
bump. I was astonished to see so few comments in this old thread, despite the rich vein of information it contains.

I'm really beginning to think that a significant factor in successful treatment free beekeeping is the preservation of variety and population density of co-evolved organisms in the hive.

Here's an interesting quote I cam across on the biobees site:


I want to share with you the most fascinating thing on bees I have ever read outside biobees.com. In the latest issue of NordBi-Aktuellt, the Journal of the Swedish Association for Preserving Apis mellifera mellifera, Swedish researcher Tobias Olofsson at the University of Lund describes his work on lactic acid bacteria. On the subject of hive atmosphere he writes (in my own humble translation from Swedish):

Lactic acid bacteria form organic acids such as lactic, acetic and formic acid. These are acids used by beekeepers to combat mites and nosema. Lactic acid bacteria are numerous and resemble small factories in the hive where they prosper in the honey stomach, bee bread, bee pollen and honey. Perhaps they produce an arsenal of substances dispersed in the hive's atmosphere? Perhaps the atmosphere in the hive is important to preserve and this would be a reason to disturb the bees as little as possible. Samples from the lab shows that the bacteria produces large amounts of organic acids that seep into the atmosphere. In modern beehives there are bottom screens and entrances at the bottom; how does this affect a potential atmosphere that might prevent disease? The answer is quite logical, but I put the question to Martin Ferm at the Swedish Environmental Research Institute (IVL) in Gothenburg. The organic acids accumulates in a fairly closed room but with a bottom screen with the full thrust of the wind at the bottom and with entrances at the bottom that aired these acids out according to Martin.
Wild bees prefer a hollow tree with only a small gap as opening and they are very careful to seal every crack or hole. We will be investigating this properly: what is the atmosphere like inside a hive if it can be left alone and what does such an atmosphere do to mites? Our pilot study that was conducted in the summer of 2009, in a hive during a typical summer day and while winter fodder was given, was just the beginning. Formic acid and acetic acid were found in the hive atmosphere in the visible amount during a typical summer day and in even larger amounts when the fodder was given.
The Board of Agriculture allocated funds for one-fifth of this project, which means we'll be managing the project on a reduced scale and without pay, but we were thrilled because they dared to bet on such an odd project
The bees will more or less look after themselves and winter on their own honey. Half of the hives (all of foams) have bottom screen and bottom entrances and the other half have a protected passage in the attic and a completely closed bottom. After 6 weeks, all hives appear to thrive equally well. Data will be collected for a year and will be compared with bacterial organic acids measured with the same equipment in the lab..

There is all kinds of interesting research on hive biota.

Rusty Hills Farm
09-06-2013, 07:09 AM
I have bookmarked this thread. Fantastic links and info. Lots to digest. I never cease to be amazed by how much there is out there to learn about EVERYTHING!

Rusty

Michael Bush
09-06-2013, 07:11 AM
>I'm really beginning to think that a significant factor in successful treatment free beekeeping is the preservation of variety and population density of co-evolved organisms in the hive.

Bingo.

Here is a very good recent one:
http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0033188

And a lot of older ones by Martha Gilliam:
http://www.beeuntoothers.com/index.php/beekeeping/gilliam-archives

gmcharlie
09-06-2013, 09:42 AM
is there any info on how to see if you have this "balance"?? or determine if you don't???

rhaldridge
09-06-2013, 01:03 PM
is there any info on how to see if you have this "balance"?? or determine if you don't???

I don't know how you'd determine that you do have a diverse and healthy micro-biota in hive and gut, but there's at least one way to be sure you don't have it.

VeggieGardener
09-06-2013, 01:17 PM
I don't know how you'd determine that you do have a diverse and healthy micro-biota in hive and gut, but there's at least one way to be sure you don't have it.

Yep!

As far as determining the presence of healthy micro-biota, examining samples under a microscope is one way that it is done with soil, so why couldn't that be a method to provide some evidence with bees also?

rhaldridge
09-06-2013, 03:11 PM
Yep!

As far as determining the presence of healthy micro-biota, examining samples under a microscope is one way that it is done with soil, so why couldn't that be a method to provide some evidence with bees also?

It's probably pretty tough to look at a slide and tell much, unless you're trained to do it and can identify the different kinds of microbes, and have some factual basis for separating good from bad. A dying hive will likely have a lot of microbes too, just not the right ones.

Interesting piece on treated vs. untreated gut bacteria explained here:

http://www.beeuntoothers.com/index.php/beekeeping/articles/105-antibiotic-resistant-gut-microbes-in-honey-bees

Solomon Parker
09-06-2013, 03:50 PM
A further difficulty would be that not all bacteria are able to be cultivated in a dish. Sometimes you just can't get the conditions right.

gmcharlie
09-06-2013, 04:04 PM
I don't know how you'd determine that you do have a diverse and healthy micro-biota in hive and gut, but there's at least one way to be sure you don't have it.
And that would be???

WLC
09-06-2013, 04:16 PM
All I had to do was add honey to syrup with a little milk.

You can grow this stuff in your kitchen.

rhaldridge
09-06-2013, 05:34 PM
And that would be???

Well, if you put stuff in the hive that kills bacteria and yeasts and arthropods, you would expect that stuff to kill those things.

Human beings on antibiotics lose their gut microflora, and it's not fun. From the research I cited above, it's even harder for bees to recover their original baseline microbiota. They compared bees from countries where no antibiotics have been used, Dee Lusby's bees, bees that hadn't been treated for 2 years, and commercial bees. The variety of gut microflora was in descending order, but even Dee Lusby's bees were not as diverse as the never-treated bees, even though hers haven't been treated for 25 years. At least that was my understanding.

It makes me wonder if part of the benefit of adding feral bees to your apiary is that they bring in more than just better genetics. Maybe they bring in co-evolved organisms too.

Keith Jarrett
09-07-2013, 10:45 AM
bump. I was astonished to see so few comments in this old thread, despite the rich vein of information it contains.

Rhaldrige, I agree with you..... There was a thread about pollen sub a while back, But as soon as you asked the folks to do there own home work they mostly threw you under the bus. American's are the most (not all) lazy bunch. :(

sqkcrk
09-07-2013, 11:40 AM
Keith,
Can you tell me what happens in a hive when you put 15lbs of protein patty into one of your hives? Besides the bees eating it, what exactly happens w/ that stuff? How does it effect the colony?

I usually feed one or sometimes two one lb pattys. Is that effective for growth or just maintainance?

Sorry if this is the wrong Thread in which to ask.

Keith Jarrett
09-08-2013, 01:03 PM
Keith,
I usually feed one or sometimes two one lb pattys. Is that effective for growth or just maintainance?.

Mark, take a look at this months Sept issue of ABJ page 963 (1).

One or two pounds isn't going to do much Mark, not even maintainance.

sqkcrk
09-08-2013, 01:45 PM
What is the proper protein patty/syrup ratio? Because, if it takes one frame of pollen and one frame of honey to produce one frame of bees, one has to feed syrup as well as protein patty, doesn't one?

BernhardHeuvel
02-09-2014, 01:59 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NI9Z73UAX-g

squarepeg
02-10-2014, 06:58 PM
all i see is a black screen, is there a link to bernhard's video?

Rader Sidetrack
02-10-2014, 07:00 PM
Try this ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=NI9Z73UAX-g

I am confident that link is correct, but after I posted, I noticed that Bernhard's post was showing an error message with a link. The error link says ...

If you’re getting a player error message, most of the time, the video should start working again in about 30 minutes. This error can sometimes happen if the uploader is making changes to the video, there’s an issue with your Internet connection speed, or the video is being removed or having other issues.

https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/3037019?p=player_error1&rd=1

squarepeg
02-10-2014, 07:20 PM
thanks rader, but i get the same thing on youtube - just a black screen. maybe it's my browser settings.

squarepeg
02-10-2014, 07:40 PM
updated the browser, it's working now.