Honey Knife- which one?

[Daisybee]

I only have a few hives and want to get a honey knife (uncapper). What would you recommend and why? Also, what products would you NOT recommend?

Thank you.

[Chef Isaac]

I like using a planer as it is quick and is not at an awkward position as with a hot knife.

[Bizzybee]

I would have Chef do it because I'm lazy and he likes using his planer. :)

[Chef Isaac]

I would do it for you Bizzy. No problem! Your honey harvest might be low though... he he he :)

[Jim Fischer]

Don't buy cheap stuff, ever.

With costs/prices going up and up, there has been an attempt to
offer cheaper (read "Made in China") tools to the hobby beekeeper
with the excuse/rationalization that it will be seldom-used, and
need not be high-quality.

Which leads to plastic extractors, and tiny little smokers, and
other stuff that seems to only exist to teach you the lesson
of "you get what you pay for" over and over.

That said, there are many people who go out and buy two or
three serrated bread knives and and electric coffee pot,
heating the knives in the water, and switching to the next
when the one in hand gets cold. It works, and it would be
the cheapest possible approach, sure to never "burn" honey.

The electric knives need a thermostat that is adjustable, and
you need to play with it from time to time until you find
"the sweet spot". Too cold, and you struggle. Too hot, and
you "burn" the honey, and melt the cappings rather than cut
them off.

Uncapping planes are way kewl, but you need to be doing a lot
of uncapping to justify the cost. If someone is selling one
used, grab it, as they tend to hold their resale value well,
and are really hard to use wrong.

The Hackler Honey Punch is advertised from time to time, and
some who use the pre-fab plastic fully drawn comb say that
it works for them if you buy several, and keep one in hot
water at all times, and wipe off the accumulated wax that
builds up on it as you use it. I myself view it as having no
application in beekeeping, except perhaps as a massage tool
for a beekeeper who has had a long day. :)

Uncapping forks make a mess. Everyone needs one, but not
as their primary uncapping tool.

Everything else would be much more money than a sane hobby
beekeeper would want to spend, and take up much more room
than would be appropriate.

[Swobee]

My personal vote for hand uncapping is with a Maxant plane. Easier on the wrist with it's center pull - think ergonomics and it may be well worth the extra $$. About $30 or so more than a heated knife depending on your retailer. Consistent depth and the setting I use gives me less capping wax residue than with a knife. Some guys may be like skilled surgeons with a heated knife, but I'm not. I like how it glides smoothly and evenly through the caps.

I got a poor man's punch the other day that is actually a rolling meat tenderizer. Haven't tried it yet, but the price was too cheap to pass up. I don't believe the punch pattern will work anything as nice as a Hackler. Once I actually try it my tune may change. Herzog makes a real agressive looking punch. I've only seen photos- looks like something left over from a Nazi torture chamber.

[Chef Isaac]

Planes are not that expenive... $60. Goes faster, easier on your wrists too.

[Grant]

I use a serated bread knife by Rada. Churches sell these as fund raisers. It's about ten inches long and cuts through everything, even pollen-laden brood comb. I use it cold.

My second choice is a large kitchen knife by Cutco. It has some patented "D" flange on the cutting surface that will take a finger off if not careful. I also use it cold. But they cost about $60 and are often sold by aspiring college students new to door-to-door cold selling.

These knives work best on frames that are still warm from afternoon heat.

The wife doesn't care too much for my using her good Cutco.

Grant
Jackson, MO

[Hobie]

Can somone provide a link to a plane? I can't seem to find one.

[Ravenseye]

Here's the Maxant one. High quality but high price. I buy some stuff from them because they're local to me.

http://www.maxantindustries.com/uncapping.html

Here's the offerings from Betterbee:

http://www.betterbee.com/products.asp?dept=717

There's more out there. I used a friends last year and liked it better than my knife, but my knife is new so I can't see replacing it yet!

Hope this helps.

[Hutch]

Sometime back, there was a discussion on the virtues of the honey plane. The consensus was the honey plane did not work well. I am planning on purchasing a new honey knife for next year and would like ti hear more discussion the plane versus the knife.

[odfrank]

[QUOTE=Hutch; would like ti hear more discussion the plane versus the knife.[/QUOTE]

I have been extracting from hundreds of pounds to a ton and a half a year for 37 years. The planes were easier for me to use without tiring my arm, but harder to make a clean cut and get low spots. They are also harder for new assistants. The planes also burn out and short out faster than knives. Honey gets into the tube that connects wires from the handle to the hot sink. They weren't easy to repair. I don't even remember burning out a knife.
I use eight and nine frames spacing in my honey boxes. These are easier to uncap in one stroke with a knife, and the eights often messier to uncap with a plane. I often dripped hot wax and honey on the back of my hand. In my golden years I have switched to an antique Cowan, less arm wear, but they require a lot of low spot scratching.

[Chef Isaac]

odfrank:

good points. I havent encountered those problems yet with my planer. I do find that sometimes I will need to use a scratch on the tops or sides where I cant get.

[Swobee]

The only problems I've had with the plane are getting low spots. I had the same problem with the knife. A quick flick of the wrist gets larger low areas with an end of the plane. A comb or scratcher gets the small sposts easily.

To uncap, I lay the frames flat in the uncapping tub on the top screen. Then, plane the other half, flip the plane over to unload the cappings. Then flip the frame over, plane it and hand it off for loading in the extractor or place in a holding tub. We use 100% deeps, so the disadvantage is that I can only plane one half at a time. It's real easy to lay them flat and uncap, though- no holding up one end at all. The other hand is free to hand off the frame and grab the next one to uncap. With the knife, I have to hold the frames upright at an angle- both hands are tied up then.

For me, the plane is quicker than a knife & easier on the wrist. Because I set it shallow, the cappings pile is much smaller and because of that we get whiter, cleaner wax than with the knife. As I said before, some guys are surgeons with an uncapping knife, but I'm not one of those talented guys. I like to lay the frames down and fly right through them with the plane. After only about 40 hives processed so far, no problems with the plane getting wax or debris into the tube or any other troubles whatsoever. But, it's still new and we still have a lot of frames to process yet, though. So far I'm completely sold on the plane vs. knife for our small operation. If our growth plans continue to come into place, in 2009 we'll probably see a need for a power uncapper, so the pont will be moot by then.

[Jim Fischer]

> Sometime back, there was a discussion on the virtues of the honey plane.
> The consensus was the honey plane did not work well.

Huh?
I've never heard anyone say that a plane was anything other than
worth every penny paid for it, but then, I've only listened to people
who actually have used them. :)

Where was this discussion held?
Did all participants have opposable thumbs? :)

[AstroBee]

I only have a few hives and want to get a honey knife (uncapper). What would you recommend and why? Also, what products would you NOT recommend?

Thank you.

I have more than a few hives and exclusively use a cold knife. Once you're used to it you can be pretty fast with one. I was very surprised this fall when I invited a fellow veteran beekeeper over for an extraction party and he brought his electric knife. He had the hot knife and I was using the cold knife (I never attempt to heat my knife - just use it cold) and I was consistently out pacing him - not by much, but it proved to me that a cold knife is pretty darn good. Its cheap, robust, and pretty efficient. It does take some technique to get it right, but so do all the other solutions. One thing I found really interesting was that we gave a newbee and opportunity to try both knives and he chose the cold knife. Hard to beat for $20.

https://www.dadant.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=736

[ikeepbees]

I've used electric knives and an uncapping plane, but for several years I've been using serrated bread knives with no heat. I thought the plane worked well, but like odfrank I found that the element burned out more often than I thought it should. A cold serrated bread knife works surprisingly well - I'd recommend trying one before spending $$$ on one of the electric options.

[Sundance]

Any one use those electric slicing/carving knives??? Just curious........ They sound like the would work OK. They are the bomb for filleting fish to be sure.

[Gene O]

Sundance was going to ask that question about the elect carving knife as i was carving the turkey tday got the idea want to try but wife said no guess will have to buy me one to try.
my two cents worth

[John Gesner]

I've not tried an electric carving knife, but my guess is that the extra friction of honey and wax between the moving blades would burn out the motor in short order. I'm guessing you'd get thru 10-20 frames before it was toast.

I'm in the market for a hot knife. I just want to try one. I've been using a cold serrated knife for the past three years. This year I processed over a ton of honey with the same cold knife. It's not something you want to do with cold comb, tho. Works MUCH better when the comb and the honey are nice and warm - like 90-95 degrees. I keep the honey house really warm when I've got a lot of supers to do, like around 105. Makes the honey run down the sides of the extractor better, too.

One thing about using knives that you heat in water. Don't bother. I've tried it. It's a pain in the butt. Every time you lift a knife out of the water, you have water dripping off the blade. If you do a fair amount of uncapping, you'll have water all over the place. To get the water off the blade, you have to use both hands to wipe it off before it drips on the floor. You end up with a pile of wet towels from wiping the blade off before you touch your comb. Or you'll eventually get so much wax and honey in the water that you'll have to stop and change the water. Even worse, you'll get water in your honey. And you don't want that. On top of that, my knife would cool down after both sides of one frame.

It may seem trivial, but the extra steps of taking knives out of water or putting them into water to grab another warm knife and then wiping off water adds up to a fair amount of extra time. Using a cold knife in a warm room is much more efficient.

[paulka]

I bought an electric hot knife this year and it worked great.
However I had heard that they will burn out, so in order to minimize over heating I use a foot switch so that it is not cooking when it isn't actually being used to cut off cappings.
They actually heat up fairly quick so it doesn't slow me down much if at all.

I also was talking with one of the older Beeks in this area and he uses a serrated "cold" knife that he keeps under a heat lamp to warm it up. He says it actually gets quite hot and it is a whole lot cheaper to replace a heat lamp bulb than a hot knife.