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Jeffzhear
09-01-2007, 03:09 PM
Just a few questions to those that are doing wax dipping.

I am thinking of using 2 parts parafin wax to 1 part gum rosin and using a 55 gal. drum for my heating container. My question is what do most of you use to heat the mixture? I worry about using wood, because of the fire hazzard. Gas would be more controllable but still provides an open frame.

Next, how much wax and rosin would I need to get started, and on average how much is used per full depth box? This would give me an idea of how much material I should order, so I don't run out while dipping boxes.

I'll also need to cacluate the weight of the material and tank to ensure I build a platform to safely hold it.

I'll appreciate any advice you can offer.
Thanks,

Michael Bush
09-02-2007, 08:42 PM
>My question is what do most of you use to heat the mixture?

An electric burner would probably be best, but mine is on a gas stove that I have outside.

> I worry about using wood, because of the fire hazzard. Gas would be more controllable but still provides an open frame.

The main thing is to keep a thermometer in it. It's just like heating a pot of oil. If you walk off and leave it it could get too hot and catch on fire. it will smoke before it catches on fire, but you can head that off at much lower temperatures by using a candy thermometer and NEVER leave it untened.

>Next, how much wax and rosin would I need to get started, and on average how much is used per full depth box?

You big amount will be enough to fill the barrel deep enough to get a box covered. It doesn't take a lot to wax a box, compared to what it takes to fill the container. But I probably went through 100 pounds of rosin and 200 pounds of beeswax coating about 500 boxes, 100 lids, and 200 bottom boards. Meaning there is still another 25 pounds of rosin and 50 pounds of beeswax in the pot and it's too low to do anything right now. I need twice that to get going again.

>This would give me an idea of how much material I should order, so I don't run out while dipping boxes.

I started with 50 pounds of rosin and 100 pounds of beeswax. I quickly needed more and ordered another 50 pounds of rosin and bought another 100 pounds of beeswax. Then I ordered another 50 pounds of rosin and I need another 100 pounds of beeswax...

>I'll also need to cacluate the weight of the material and tank to ensure I build a platform to safely hold it.

A pints a pound the world around. It doesn't work for honey (which is a pound and a half), but it's close enough for wax.

Focus on Bees
09-03-2007, 03:14 AM
where do you get rosin from and how much are you guys paying for it ? I would like to try it sometime

BULLSEYE BILL
09-03-2007, 08:28 AM
You can find that info in this thread and a lot more. -> http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=205726&highlight=pacific+coast

Jeffzhear
09-03-2007, 08:44 AM
Bill, Great thread, ty for posting. I'll spend a whole lot more time reading...:) Michael, ty for giving me an idea on how much resin and parafin I'll need.:)

Ice Czar
09-03-2007, 05:47 PM
It often pays big dividends to consider synergistic relationships when using energy. Stack loss, the loss of heat from one process can often be scavenged for another.

The thread above mentions a double boiler, and as a heat transfer medium water is hard to beat. A few simple heat exchangers can make a big difference in how efficiently you get the job done. It really depends on what other processes you might be able to combine and their stack loss.

a few candidates
small scale charcoal production
wood steamer (bending wood)
outdoor pizza oven\barbecue\smoker
small scale ceramics kiln, forge or foundry

for a one off go at dipping certainly not worth the bother, but as a regular endeavor or a large multi-use double burner could be the beginning of the annual hive dip and fish fry :p

Dan Williamson
09-04-2007, 06:34 AM
I personally would be concerned about how long the bottom of the barrel will last. You will be heating it quite hot. How long before the bottom rusts out? The sidewalls of my tank are either 3/16 or 1/4" thick and the plate I had welded to the bottom is 5/16" thick.

I use a Jet burner the type used for doing large outdoor cooking. When its on the flame comes shooting out and is quite loud like that of a jet engine roar. It works well.

I use an old propane tank that has been cut up. You can see the pics on my link. I can't remember how much paraffin/rosin mixture I used to fill the tank but it was quite a bit. I think it cost me around $600 with a 2:1 mixture like you are talking about to get the tank filled. When full, I can do approx 7 med boxes and various migratory lids and bottom boards etc tucked in around the boxes.

You could get by with less as a barrel has a smaller diameter and you wouldn't need to fill it as deep if only needing to do a few boxes.

stangardener
09-04-2007, 10:55 AM
i use a weed burner to heat up water in a 55 gal barrel. they are less than $20 at harbor freight tools and get very hot. the flame is on the side of the barrel so you can use a differant section each time and extend the life of the barrel.

ooptec
09-05-2007, 10:06 AM
Use paraffin and rosin?? Why not use the bees own products?? Like beeswax and propolis dissolved in turpentine? No heat, no danger.

cheers

peter

Dan Williamson
09-05-2007, 10:29 AM
Use paraffin and rosin?? Why not use the bees own products?? Like beeswax and propolis dissolved in turpentine? No heat, no danger.

cheers

peter

Definately. Use turpentine. That's a bees own product too!

stangardener
09-05-2007, 05:50 PM
Definately. Use turpentine. That's a bees own product too!

are you being sarcastic? i don't mind if you are, i'm just trying to clarify.
is turpentine a petroleum product?
does the wax/propolis in turpentine really make a good wood preservative?
if so it seems soaking slum gum in turpentine would make a good preservative.

Swobee
09-05-2007, 07:16 PM
What the heck kind of bees out there make terpentine? It's distilled from pine tar, not from bee glands. None of my bees have stills in their hives! Saaay- could be a hive product stronger than Mead?

But, mix it (terpentine) with boiled linseed oil and you have a good preservative. I don't believe I'd want any inside the hive body, as it might be toxic to the bees. Maybe after it's cured a while the toxicity will disappear or at least lessen. A neighbor of ours used to treat his shovel, wheelbarrow, hammer handles, etc. with the mix and they were well preserved.

Michael Bush
09-05-2007, 08:06 PM
I used beeswax and gum rosin. The bees think it's propolis and gather it off of my gloves:
http://www.bushfarms.com/images/RosinWaxAsPropolis.jpg

Dan Williamson
09-06-2007, 05:52 AM
are you being sarcastic? i don't mind if you are, i'm just trying to clarify.
is turpentine a petroleum product?
does the wax/propolis in turpentine really make a good wood preservative?
if so it seems soaking slum gum in turpentine would make a good preservative.

Yes, I was being sarcastic! :D I just found it funny that ooptec said:

Why not use the bees own products?? Like beeswax and propolis dissolved in turpentine?

Last time I checked my hives the bees weren't making turpentine! ;)

Troy
09-06-2007, 11:44 AM
Does turpentine dissolve wax? I liked the idea of using it to dissolve the wax remaining in the slumgum.

Not too keen on using it in the hive though. I was just thinking that it would be a good way to extract that last bit of wax and use it for a lubricant or other such things where toxicity is not an issue.

Troy
09-06-2007, 11:46 AM
I would also like to treat my hive bodies and supers with wax/rosin, but as a small time hobbyist the setup of this kind of a burner is too much.

Is there anyone in Florida doing this? I thought maybe I could bring my equipment over and pay a reasonable fee for doing mine too. I'd be happy to more than cover the cost of the wax, rosin, fuel etc.

ooptec
09-09-2007, 12:58 PM
Are y'all teched or purposely being obtuse? The turpentine evaporates completely away. This is the finish used in the fabled Stratavarious (sp?) violins and I used it as a coating on my workbench with great success and it also makes the wood more durable (harder)

It also eliminates the danger of a whole pot on a burner catching fire.

cheers

peter

John F
09-09-2007, 10:48 PM
I cold dip my stuff in:

.25 lbs paraffin
1 gallon odor free mineral spirits
1 quart spar varnish

(I mix a bigger batch)

Dip stuff for 3 minutes (or more).

The forest service uses this to treat their wood stuff and report very good longevity.

I got the link to the info here on beesource in a discussion of hot dipping. I don't need a heat source and the stuff looks just like the picture Michael shows of his hot dipped stuff.

Dan Williamson
09-10-2007, 06:03 AM
Are y'all teched or purposely being obtuse? The turpentine evaporates completely away. This is the finish used in the fabled Stratavarious (sp?) violins and I used it as a coating on my workbench with great success and it also makes the wood more durable (harder)

It also eliminates the danger of a whole pot on a burner catching fire.

cheers

peter

Relax peter.... we're just having fun w/ you! :D

geoffkb
09-10-2007, 11:52 AM
A pints a pound the world around. It doesn't work for honey (which is a pound and a half), but it's close enough for wax.

Actually in the UK a pint of water is 1.25 pounds, since it's 20 fl oz. Which is great for beer :) and means that cars do 25% more miles per gallon of petrol. (except petrol is now sold in litres).

When are bee keeping is going to got metric? :D

Troy
09-10-2007, 02:16 PM
Why on earth we can't all just use the metric system is beyond me.

I remember reading in the newspaper back in 1976 that we would all soon be on the metric system.

What the heck happened? I buy liquor in litres, but I mix a drink in ounces and my US gallons are smaller than Canadian Imperial gallons. Heck we even crashed a probe on mars because of this problem.

Let's all just go metric and be done with it.

Michael Bush
09-10-2007, 08:12 PM
>What the heck happened?

That's easy. Americans (as in US) of my generation where raised being taught the metric system. The WAY they were taught the metric system was always a matter of conversions. No one taught us that all we needed was measuring instruments that were metric. I was aware of this more because I was a printer. We measured in Agates, Picas, Points, Inches, and mm. And we had a ruler that had all of them on it. We NEVER converted. We just measured with the right ruler. But Americans got the idea that the metric system involved constantly converting. It does not. In fact all conversions, if you use only metric, are awesomely simple. But Americans will probably never find this out. Instead we will have cars that have half metric and half standard bolts in them and be using conversion charts forever.

Then congress made the fatal mistake of legislating it. They said we HAD to use the metric system. As you can see, we rebellious Americans paid no attention to them, as usual.

Troy
09-11-2007, 08:51 AM
I love that rebellious spirit.

If they tell us we can't have it - we want it.

If they tell us not to drive over a certain speed - we always do.

If they tell us not to eat it - we order it.

I think it is hilariously funny.

Jeffzhear
09-11-2007, 05:07 PM
Any idea where in the northeast I could get the gum rosin and parafin? Seems that shipping would be too costly from MN.

Alan
09-11-2007, 05:43 PM
Try Betterbee Jeff. If they have it in stock, their bulk price is hard to beat. There is also a candle supply house in PA, but I can't remember the name. I don't have any experience with the rosin. Good luck

Michael Bush
09-11-2007, 07:10 PM
Rosin is available from Mann Lake. Paraffin is also, but it's cheaper at the local hobby store as you won't have to pay the shipping.

Jeffzhear
09-12-2007, 11:43 AM
Try Betterbee Jeff. If they have it in stock, their bulk price is hard to beat. There is also a candle supply house in PA, but I can't remember the name. I don't have any experience with the rosin. Good luck

I called Betterbee and they don't carry Gum Rosin. I'm just trying to avoid paying shipping on it from MN. The Parafin won't be a problem. Thanks for your advice...

Troy
09-12-2007, 01:37 PM
I love this idea, but for a hobbyist like me it is just not affordable to set up.

Can I buy the equipment already dipped?

Dan Williamson
09-13-2007, 05:51 AM
I love this idea, but for a hobbyist like me it is just not affordable to set up.

Can I buy the equipment already dipped?

Its definately NOT affordable for someone with a few hives. I believe there is someone in Ohio... (Queen Right something?) that sells dipped equipment.