early fall pollen feeding

[BjornBee]

I noticed the last couple days, that bees had begun to collect from a pollen feeder that still had pollen sub from this past spring. They had completely ignored it till this time. They stopped cold turkey once natural pollen came available in the spring. And although early goldenrod and other pollen is available, they have choosen to collect old pollen sub that has been between the two telescoping covers, as seen in the photo. Some is quite hard as the weather/moisture has been at it.

So this morning I placed two types out and they have begun to collect it after just a few seconds. I guess the bees are telling us its that time of the year.

http://s186.photobucket.com/albums/x236/BjornBee/?action=view&current=beepictures027.jpg

[JBJ]

Which types did you put out and what was the observed preference?

[BjornBee]

JBJ,
The one on the right in the photo is a brewers yeast based pollen sub that I have ordered from a manufacturer myself. I am playing around with some different fomulas and mixtures. Its being taken at least three to one over the other.

The one on the left is a commercially bought pollen sub. I am not sure if its soy or brewers yeast based. (all pollen subs are brewers yeast, soy, or pollen based) I will not divulge what the brand is, but its a mainstream product everyone knows. My intent is to formulate and find the best sub while maintaining the nutritional values set forth by DeGroot for healthy bees. I'm not interested in bashing individual suppliers. (maybe the industry as a whole) ;)

I have yet to use pure pollen. There are several pollen subs that without pollen added, have good nutritional values. The same companies that produce or sell the pollen sub sells the same product with "natural pollen added", and then sell it at a premium. But this same pollen sub with the natural pollen added, have overall lower nutritional values once the pollen has been added. Red flag...anyone?

I wanted to play around with natural pollen and I actually beleive the bees would perhaps take it for unknown "natural" reasons. (Perhaps some internal trigger or "sixth sense" sort of thing.) But if it is going to lower the nutritional value by adding natural pollen, I'll try to do without. Besides, I can not get a nutritional listings and analysis for natural pollen, much of it on the commercial market being from China. Makes you wonder.

[MapMan]

Bjorn:

Another factor which you might want to consider is the time of year - will the same mixture be as attractive in the fall as in the spring for brood buildup? We're talking about declining numbers in the colonies now, and is pollen at this time of year needed for brood maintenance, or for an energy/nutritional source in stores for winter?

Additionally, will you get better results with the addition of sugar syrup to the powders, make them into patties and then observe their preferences. I know some pollen substitutes (perhaps all?) have some sugar added, but they might not be in a form which the bees readily accept.

MM

Oh, using the "sniff test" you should be able to to determine if the mix is primarily yeast or soy-based. But, perhaps a combination of the two protein sources might skew the sniff test.

[BjornBee]

MM, your comment....

"I know some pollen substitutes (perhaps all?) have some sugar added, but they might not be in a form which the bees readily accept."

Thats the reason I am trying dry formulas first. Most of the patties (and some dry) are made with over 50% sugars. I could get them to eat mud if it had that much sugar.

What I'm trying to do is mirror as close to natural pollen as possible. I actually do not know what the sugar content of natural pollens are, but I know its not 50%. So by feeding pollen sub patties with 50% sugars, are we missing out with something the bees do once dry pollen is collected from nature? They take pollen, mix honey/nectar, enzymes, etc., and make bee bread. Certainly there is more to the process then just storing it.

So will they take dry and process it different from patties made with 50% sugars and moisture already added? I don't have all the answers. Is there quality issues and perhaps other ramifications of feeding wet versus dry, or high nutrient versus lower nutrient with high sugar levels?

So right now, I'm seeing which they prefer dry. Which is somewhat unfair since in some of the comparisions, some dry pollen sub on the market already has high levels of sugars.

So will they prefer sugar laced lesser quality pollen sub over dry subs with lower sugars but higher nutrient levels. Can the bees even figure that out?

One step at a time......

[kenpkr]

There's an excellent article in the August Bee Culture by Randy Oliver on honeybee nutrition. Can't post it here because it's not on the magazine's website yet.
Check it out if you can- very informative.

[BjornBee]

Kenpkr,

For those who don't get bee culture, all you need is beesource.... ;)

Most of the same discussion and links to the same type material has been posted here for months now. Read this discussion for starters..

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=208502&highlight=low+protein+deficiency

or here,

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=200970&highlight=fall+dwindling

[kenpkr]

Kenpkr,

For those who don't get bee culture, all you need is beesource....

Yep, but having both is even better!! ;)

[BjornBee]

Kenpkr,
I agree. Its just alot more "fresher' here. ;)

Who knows...there has been alot of discussion here on beesource of some "newer" things like commercial fondant, as one example. So I'm sure someone is gleaning the files and hastily writing some cute little article as we speak. We'll probably read about it in the coming months. ;)