A Solution.....

[Chef Isaac]

I really do not like feeding with sugar syrup because it is time consuming. You have to boil the water, ad the sugar, heat it up to disolve.

The tops of the mason jar lids get full of propalis. Than you have to boil the lids in water to remove it.

That is a lot of work if you have a lot of hives..... So I am always looking for solltions to solve the heating problem and lid problem.

Thank you to Bizzybee who said he doesnt heat his water but just uses hot top water. It worked great!!!

For the lid thing... I once heard people using old clothes that are placed on top of the jar. I was thinking about this last night and I took a shift that had been closely sewn, cut it, and fill water in a jar. I took the shirt, put it over the top of the jar, placed rubber band around the kneck and inverted.

IT WORKED GREAT. I found out that you need ot wet the cloth before inverting it to make the vacum stronger.

I LOVE IT!!!!

[Sundance]

Just bee careful Chef...... I would be a bit concerned about bees nibbling into the fabric and........ well you know the rest. I do have about 15 Nucs that I built to use the top jar feeder with the lid and holes. But for the most part I've gone to frame feeders, just easier and faster I guess.

[papar]

Have you ever tried quall feeders. You can get the tops that screw into a mason jar or the 1 gallon set up. Provided the hives are level, these really work nice and not one drown bee- the supplier I use ships anywhere, if interested I can provide that info

[BjornBee]

papar,
You must be talking about Craig "Want to buy a quail feeder" Cella.

Chef,
I hate mixing, multiple visits to the hive, and the mess. And I can't get less then a half tanker delivered of hfcs. Thats why I use fondant. I buy in 50 pound blocks from a bakers supply store. I can cut 25 pounds off and place on a paper towel then place on top of the bars. Just place an empty hive body on top. Feeds for a long time. I can tell when they are ready for more by the shredded paper at the entrance.

I can feed through a dearth, and with the fall flow, this supplimental feed makes all the difference.

Its a little but more, but I think its worth it.

I have two or three inch shims for all sizes of my boxes. (10 and 8 frame Hives, 5 frame nucs, 3 framers) I can feed anytime, and have little robbing.

The best part is the little moisture it adds to the hive in the fall and going into winter. Moisture kills. I have seen many dead hives that had been fed syrup and they had open frames of sugar syrup not capped going into winter.

[kensfarm]

I've been mixing 5 gallons batches.. the pressure from the garden hose makes the sugar disolve quick.. I use my hand to check/stir the bottom of the bucket.. rinse my arm off done. It bearly takes a minute.

[MapMan]

Bjorn -

What are the ingredients in the fondant which you purchase? Is it rolled or sculpting fondant? Are they adding gumpaste to the mixture, or oils? How much are you paying per pound for the fondant?

You can easily make your own fondant by boiling sugar and water together, and as it cools, beating it into a paste. Perhaps for a large-scale operation, a 5 gallon food grade pail, a power drill, and a drywall compound mixer blade. I know, a bit of work, but it might beat carrying gallons of sugar water to the hives. Thinking out loud here - perhaps it is worth a try.

MM

[mike haney]

I've been mixing 5 gallons batches.. the pressure from the garden hose makes the sugar disolve quick.. I use my hand to check/stir the bottom of the bucket.. rinse my arm off done. It bearly takes a minute.

when it's 100+ degrees here(or even less) if you leave a hose on and the nozle off a 50-75 hose left in the sun will provide a couple gallons of SCALDING hot water to total 5 gals of lukewarm. if you half fill the bucket and stir with a atick or long spoon sugar should mix easy. now if i just had a young helper to carry it...........

[kensfarm]

the sun will provide a couple gallons of SCALDING hot water....

Yes it is.. makes me want to build a solar water heater. Hey.. my fiance' from Owensboro, Ky.

[mike haney]

i KNEW all the good ones had left! dangnabit!!!!!!!

[BjornBee]

MM,
The ingredients are sugar, water, corn syrup. In that order. Nothing else.

Not sure what you mean by rolled or sculpting. Its for pastries and food items.

I pay 29.70 for a 50 pound block. 31.00 delievered.

Its about an hours drive to Lancaster, where the supply warehouse is. So I get it delivered. It saves me a few hours time, and a half tank of gas in the truck.

Again, if its a cost thing, factor in the time mixing, filling, and visiting yards, etc.

I can feed a hive in an outyard 5 or 25 pounds. No syrup, no jars, no mess. And I have never seen robbing started due to fondant being used.

[papar]

Never heard of that guy. Out of curiosity, is there something you don't like about them? The only thing I can see is that it is a very quick feed system and does require the leveling of the hive. I have tried the fondant last fall and what I found was that them seemed to have difficulty working it when it started to harden up. How do you contend with that?(probabley stays soft in the warm weather) Was thinking of taking my slices and putting them in a zip locks then slicing opening to allow the girls to get it. I have a little left from last year, think I'll try it now and see how they take it up.

[MapMan]

Bjorn -

Sound like an ideal system, except for the cost - time is money, but .20-.25 per pound more for simple sugars might add up for folks with a lot of hives.

But I (for once:)) agree with you - you add in time mixing, cleaning up mess, initial cost of feeders and repairs, hauling sugar solution all over the place... fondant seems well worth the money. After all, my time is worth quite a bit more than .20-.25 more per pound.

MM

[BjornBee]

MM,
I actually went with fondant after I grew into a larger operation. I did the 20 five pound sugar bags at a time from the market. Standing every morning mixing, filling jars, etc.

I now keep a block of fondant or two, in the truck, and as I make my rounds to the yards, when I find a light or near starving hive, I place a good 10 pounds on top of the inner cover hole. (having empty super boxes is a must ;)

For some reason, it really kicks the hive in the butt. A near starving hive really gets it turned around. I never thought hives could feel defeated or depressed and actually laughed at others who suggest this. But a hive that can feed all night long, also seems to collect through the day. I am sure that these otherwise soon to be dead hive, seems within weeks to store alot of honey.

Today I found ten hives in one yard that are very light. Southern Pennsylvania has been very dry and it surprised me that these hive are so light. Tomorrow, I will go back and place a good chunk of fondant on these hives and this will carry them into the fall flow in a much better position.

I had also fed a good amount of nucs and hives this past year (winter) with fondant. I had placed 25 pounds on some good populated but very light hives last fall. They had eaten up through the inner cover hole and consumed the fondant for months.

I actually think if I had two hives in the back yard, the hive top feeders would be the way to go. I have more than that, but I also do not feed all my hives going into winter. For many, there is no need. I don't take mine south or west, so build up and fall feeding for this purpose is not warranted. I actually will only feed the hives that need it. The fondant gives me the flexibility and convenience to feed anytime by simply having a block in the truck. Well worth the cost.

[Chef Isaac]

Bjorn:

The question was... is it rolled fondant (looks like white dough) or glazed fondant that they use to glaze petite fours?

More than likely it is rolled fondant.

How much do you give them at a time?

[Chef Isaac]

Bjorn: this method interests me a lot.

A few more questions.... you just place a chunk on the inner cover, covering the hole? Do you just leave it as a big chunk? Do you roll it out any?

[MapMan]

Actually, if I recall... senior moments aside, my brother ran a bakery at one time... there are three type of fondant: 1) rolled (for covering cakes - see Ace of Cakes on the Food Channel), 2) pouring (for glazing donuts and pastries), and 3) sculpting (used for borders, ruffles and flowers, etc. on a cake).

I think those are the types. Been a long time ago.

MM

[BjornBee]

MM,
All I can say is that it comes in a block form, and has the consistency of clay.

Chef, Right now I'll place about 10 pounds per light hive. As I mentioned, it seems to have a positive effect on the bees and with a great fall flow, I still want them to utilize it.

On my final inspection later in the fall, I'll place 20 or 25 pounds for any remaining light hives. Or for any found light hives through the winter. The bees will actually take months to eat the 20 or more pounds. I'll check the hives again in January, and place another good bit for any light hives at that time. That will take them through till first nectar come in.

I don't do this with all hives. But I push the limit and will try overwintering more than I should. I split two hives today and hopefully will split about 10 this weekend. The fondant helps me know that I can at least get 25 pounds (or whatever the pounds) on a late swarm, split or light hive. They will feed up against the inner cover hole all winter as long as there is feed.

[Chef Isaac]

Map:

I would have to respectfeully disagree. There are two types... pouring and rolled. You can make boarders, riffles, etc with rolled fondant. You just have to adjust the consistancy depending o nwhat you are doing. Boarders and some riffles are made from pastiliage... which is a sugar combination but someones has egg whites. It does get hard quickly.

[Chef Isaac]

I called and priced out the fondant..... $23 for 50 pound block. I get a 25 pound of sugar for like 12 bucks. What a deal...

plus.... no mixing involved :).

[Chef Isaac]

bjorn: so you do put the block of fondant on the inner cover covering the hole?

[BjornBee]

23 dollars....What a deal! I'll be talkin to my supplier... ;)

Yes, I place it right on the inner cover hole.

Right now I'll make sure that the bees have space to still get above the inner cover and keep the extra space cleaned, etc. If you don't do that, ants, etc., may get in and have a field day. So lay the chunk on one side and let the bees use the hole. Once cold weather hits, I'll place the larger amounts for winter right over the hole and let them eat their way up through it.

[Chef Isaac]

You know what Bjorn.... I AM ON TO YOU...

Yes... I said it... I am on to you!!!

I read in a cooking magazine and saw in add "Bjorn Wedding Cakes for sale.... The best mini cakes ever"

I am on to you!!!..... feeding all that fondant... SO YOUR BEES CAN MAKE YOU WEDDING CAKES.....

I see how it is.... :)

[BjornBee]

Chef,
Wait till you find out that I don't even have bees. I just come here to tick people off and get my jollies!
Beekeepers, what an insecure group of people... ;)

Didn't you know...I'm just an 83 year old grandmother....... :)

[Chef Isaac]

I kinda figured.... since your posrs smell like old hag....

he he he .....

[Chef Isaac]

on a serious note Bjorn.... I thank you for your advice on the fondant. I cant wait to try it.

I called a place yesterday and they didnt have it. I ask the guy to order for me and he had no freakin clue what I was talking about. I told him it is used to put on wedding cakes... like a dough. Still didnt know what I was talking about.....

So he said he would check..... he calledm e back and said it would be here monday. The only problem is that he said it "the fondant... a 50 pound sack will come Monday".

Sack implies something other than a block... like granulated sugar or a sack of onions.

Crap.... I hope the order is right....

[Michael Palmer]

>The tops of the mason jar lids get full of propalis.<

>..... So I am always looking for solltions to solve the lid problem.<

Chef, I'm assuming you're using a nail to make the holes in the lid? I use the corner of my hive tool to make the holes. More of a cut than a hole. I can then re-insert the hive tool to clean out the propolis. Way quicker than trying to poke a nail into all those holes. Also...I use new gallon paint cans instead of jars, which have more surface area than the top of a Mason Jar.

[Jeffzhear]

"...Boarders and some riffles are made from pastiliage... which is a sugar combination but someones has egg whites. It does get hard quickly."

So, just to clarify, fondant doesn't have egg whites in it, right?
Bakery supply houses: are there national big supply houses? If so, do you have a name of one...

Maybe if I look in the yellow pages I'll find one. Going to investigate this shortly...

[Chef Isaac]

Jeff:

No, fondant does not have egg whites in it. You are thinking of pastiliage.

If you go to google and type in "Baking supplies in _____" (insert your city and state) you should have some good luck.

If you cant find a place, let me know and I will help you out:

Palmer: Well.. I used to use the white lids they sell with the mason jars at the bee supply places that have a lot of holes in them. The problem is that if you leave them on the hive too long, they will propolize the holes... not sure why but they do.

So I found that if you do not use the lid at all and take a shirt, cut a piece off of it, wet it, and put it on top of the jar with a rubberband, it works great.

However, I do like the fondant idea much better. I will give her a good old college try.