What are the effects of Tylan?

[Sr. Tanya]

I used some tylan in one of my hives early in the spring and I've had to take out some of the honey filled frames because it was honey bound. The honey came in after the tylan was used up.

Can I extract this honey to be use for human consumption? I think the FDA said it wasn't harmful to humans but I'd like to know from beeks.

Anything else I should know about this product?

Thanks!
Tanya

[JBJ]

http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:z1Q1GGPJ42MJ:entomology.ucdavis.edu/faculty/mussen/09-10-04.pdf+tylan+half+life+bees&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=us&lr=lang_en
http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:3XiZNbZMnoEJ:www.ohioagriculture.go v/plant/curr/ap/InfoBee5.pdf+tylan+half+life+bees&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us&lr=lang_en

Half-life will vary with application technique. I would use the honey collected near your application period for winter bee feed.

[Sr. Tanya]

Thanks JBJ for the references. I was leaning towards feeding it back to them but if the tylan was administered more than a month and a half before the honey came in, would that still be considered questionable??

Thanks!
Tanya

[kc in wv]

It seems to have cured the AFB. There is something like a 260 day residue effect with tylan. I had a hive that issued a swarm over a month after it was treated. I checked with the head of the research team, (I think it was Dr. Mark Feldlaufer), onTylan at Beltsville MD. He suggested that I not use the honey made by the swarm.

[Sr. Tanya]

kc in wv,

That is what I wanted to know. So the bees get the frames of honey!! I can already hear the buzz of excitement.

Thanks!
Tanya

[Sr. Tanya]

Another question on Tylan--
I was told that Tylan was taking the place of Terramycin. Is that so, since it is supposed to treat AFB??

Thanks!
Tanya

[Dave W]

>Tylan taking the place of Terramycin . . .

Is your AFB resistant to oxytetracycline hydrochloride (brand name Terramycin)?

It is my understanding that the macrolide antibiotic tylosin (brand name Tylan) is to be used ONLY if the AFB you are treating is KNOWN to be resistant.

[Sr. Tanya]

Dave W,

I have been following my mentors advise in this. He keeps up with the local information on, well, everything. He said that the bees were resistant and said to use tylan in the hives because the terramycin wasn't doing the job anymore.

Another aspect that was concerning me is that I DON'T have AFB. I'm new to this list but am having a crash course in all aspects of beekeeping, so am interested in knowing all that I can about tylan and other things. I am presuming that he wanted me to use it as a preventative.

Thanks!
Tanya

[dickm]

The label on Tylan says NOT to use it in advance of an infection. I suspect commercial beeks ignore this but that doesn't mean it's right. It persists longer and we don't know that any particular AFB is resistant to Terramyacin without testing. The advice today is to not use either unless you have a case and then determine, by sending in a sample for a free test, whether it is resistant to our old stanby, Terra. If it IS...then you may only treat it if it is legal to do so in your state. In my state CT. AFB must be burned. Anyone know where else?

Dickm

[Sr. Tanya]

dickm,

I should have followed my gut feeling. I now have two of my three hives with tylan in them-- one in early spring and a nuc given me by the mentor. Well, I'll just not expect to get any honey from those two this year and hope for a windfall from the third. :rolleyes:

Thank you for the information!!
Tanya

[NW IN Beekeeper]

[It seems to have cured the AFB.]

Tylan doesn't cure AFB, it masks it.
Tylan changes the PH in the bee's stomach to avoid rupturing the spore.
Hopefully the bee deficates outside the hive removing the spore from the hive.
Performed enough times, the spores are diminished to a level that doesn't cause active infection.
Dormant spores remain however, and stress can lower the threshold at which infection occurs.
No medication replaces good nutrition and good hive management techniques.:)

Tylan does NOT replace Terramycin, and its wrong to spread that mis-information. :mad:

Some strains are still susceptable to Terramycin.
Others only are affected by Tylan.

Keep using it without understanding its use and duration in the hive and
eventually we will have either very expensive medications or none at all.

AFB spore are far too small and lay dormant far too long to trust medications to clean a hive.
Good hive management with regular program of disposing of old combs is the best defense.

Burning infected equipment is the best remedy, especially if you have a high likelihood of robbing, or if your forgetful and might make up nucs or equalize colonies (whereby spreading the rampant spores throughtout your beeyard.) :(

I'd recommend reading about medications BEFORE applying them.:rolleyes:
Labels are there for a reason, and they can change, so read them.
I wouldn't medicate myself. kids, pets, or bees without educating myself
first.

-Jeff

[NW IN Beekeeper]

http://www.ohioagriculture.gov/plant/curr/ap/InfoBee5.pdf
Quote: "the half life for tylosin is 287 days!"

In short, if the bees haven't totally consumed and deficated the remains outside, you'll have tylosin in your hive for a very long time (probably longer than the queen heading that hive!):eek:

Bees will move stores around, so although you may not have supers on when you treat, it does not mean that stores from the brood chamber were not moved up to honey supers. :(

This doesn't even conside if it was tracked into areas where pollen was stored, that might not even be breached again until winter!

-Jeff

[Sr. Tanya]

Thanks, Jeff. Sounds like good advise. I was just given the tylan to put on the hive so didn't have anything to read. Now I am educating myself so I don't make more mistakes with any "medications". :)

Tanya

[NW IN Beekeeper]

No problem....

That's what we're here for, to help each other think about concepts we'd not come to on our own thinking. :D

I feel a bit angry and sad that seasoned beekeepers would give someone drugs like and just say apply without explaining the reason why. :(

Suppose those are the reasons that we as a new era of beekeepers join a forum like this to prevent keeping each other in the dark. :)

[kc in wv]

I had a hive that was way out in the boonies. When I went to check it in late winter it had more stores than it started winter with. This told me that the hive robbed out another one. The hive showed signs of beginning AFB. I had been scheduled for an inspection of my home yard so I moved it home( mistake #1). The inspector diagnosed it and sent a sample to Beltsville. That one showed AFB and to treat with Tylan was recommended. (This was the first time in 27 years of beekeeping I had AFB.) The inspector suggested treating all 5 hive in the home yard with tylan(mistake #2).

Here is how I treated my infected hive. I treated it with tylan 3 times. Then I took a hive of brood with honey and put in a fresh box with 9 frames of foundation. I put a spacer on top of the box and set the infected hive on it. I then put beequick on top of the infected hive and drove all of the bees down in the new box. I then treated with tylan one more time. That was last year. This year that hive is making lots of brood and honey. So far it has produced a full hive body of honey even after we lost our major honey flow to the freeze.

The infected equipment is wrapped up waiting for a run through the Autoclave that we have here in the state for AFB equipment. This Autoclave is hard on equipment but it is worth it.

If I have to do it over again I would consider destroying the colony and wax. the cost of tylan is pretty expensive when you are in a rush for it. It should only be used if you have AFB.



As a side note; When I found out I had AFB I called all of the Beeks I knew in the area of the hive and warned them. The state was called in and they found s hotbed of AFB. This area is about 40 miles away so I havent been back

[Sr. Tanya]

Live and learn... :rolleyes: The one hive that I gave tylan to in the spring was one that barely survived the winter. After giving it more bees and a frame of honey from a strong hive it is booming. I'll just let them boom and if there is any extra stores of honey in the fall, I'll use it as feed. UNLESS you think this would be giving the tylan back to them. This would be in fall probably.

The other one is still a nuc that is building up now and I don't expect to get anything from it this year- thank God! Just to build it up for next year.

Thank you everyone!
Tanya

[dcross]

Here is how I treated my infected hive. I treated it with tylan 3 times.


When I had AFB two years ago, I just shook two of the hives onto new equipment, no antibiotics and no re-occurence. Wish I had access to an autoclave for the infected comb...

[ScadsOBees]

I too had a mentor that used terra as a preventative. Haven't used it since I started reading the forum a few years back. Still can't figure out why he'd do that in the first place, hope he didn't have it at some point....

-r

[Sr. Tanya]

I know he meant well, and he's been a tremendous help to me. I think it's confusing to many people who've kept bees for many years and now have one after another mite or disease take over.

I don't think I'll be using it again unless I do have AFB. I'm just trying to see what works for my bees. Love the little critters.

Thanks!
Tanya

[kc in wv]

When I had AFB two years ago, I just shook two of the hives onto new equipment, no antibiotics and no re-occurence. Wish I had access to an autoclave for the infected comb...

The autoclave works on the wooden ware. if you don't clean the wax and propolis off before the treatment you have a mess afterwords.

[carbide]

I don't think I'll be using it again unless I do have AFB.


According to our local Pa. inspector (Duane Hall from Smithton) Tylan is not legal to use in a beehive in Pa unless it has been confirmed that the AFB in your hive is resistant to Terramycin. He says NOT to use it as a preventative for AFB. ONLY use it once the tests have confirmed it's resistance to Terramycin.

He has about 1200 hives and only uses Terramycin IF he has a confirmed case of AFB. IF the Terramycin doesn't clear it up then he goes to the Tylan treatment. He's a firm believer that a hive shouldn't be burned unless the AFB cannot be controlled with Terramycin, or in worts case scenario with the Tylan. He claims to not have seen a case yet that hasn't been controlled with one or the other. According to Duane, they pulled jars of honey off the shelves of stores throughout Pa. a couple of years ago and tested them for AFB spores. ALL the honey tested positive for the AFB spores. Therefore, it is not something that can be eliminated, only controlled.


PS. I don't know who your mentor is, but if it is either Curt or Dean, they should know better than to use Tylan as a preventative for AFB!

[Aspera]

When I had AFB two years ago, I just shook two of the hives onto new equipment, no antibiotics and no re-occurence. Wish I had access to an autoclave for the infected comb...

Be careful with this as most autoclaves are operated at 141 C, very close to the flash point for beeswax.

Also, as Dave W mentioned, Tylan should be reserved only for tetracycline resistant strains of AFB. My opinion is that you cannot classify an organism as resistant without doing a CULTURE and SENSATIVITY of your AFB. As no one seems to do this and there is NO veterinary oversight, my assessment is that Tylan resistance will soon come to the US. Probably such strains already exist in China, which has been found exporting chloramphenicol contaminated honey. In this respect, Chinese and American philosophy seem quite similar. The "if your antibiotic doesn't work, just use another antibiotic" approach is WRONG and demonstrates why we use far more pesticides, drugs and supplements than are usually needed.