What queens to buy?

[Orion]

What queens to buy? There are so many out there it just confuses me. I have 3 hive in my backyard right now and plan to split and buy more for two farms nearby next year. I have been thinking about, but am not limited to the following bees: New World Carniolan (NWC)
Minnesota Hygienic Italian
Russian
Italian
SMR

I have two you kids & one dog. The farms have cows, organic orchards, olives and eucalpitas as well as wildflowers.

What do you think? Any advice is great.

Thanks Jim

[WVbeekeeper]

if i was you i'd do some research. read what you can about the traits and qualities of each strain you would consider. then make a decision based on which you find the most favorable for you. i'm sure if everyone answered that you would see that they would all be pulling for their favorite strain. maybe we should start a poll to see what the most popular type of queens are.

[IndianaHoney]

I have some Carni, some Mn Hyg, and some Buckfast queens.

As for spring buildup, I like the Buckfast. I haven't seen how the Mn Hyg and the Carni overwinter yet, but I read that the Carni hives will overwinter well.

The problem I have with the Carni hives is that its hard to get them to draw comb durring the swarm season. Even if they are only filling half of one deep, they will swarm before they will draw new comb, but then after swarm season ended, they went gang buster and surpassed ALL of the Buckfast and Mn Hyg in comb building, population, and production. I have Buckfast, and Mn Hyg splits that I just put a second deep on. My Carni splits exploded within the last two weeks, and I now have two deeps full of honey, and I'm adding honey supers to them now. If the flow continues, I think that I may get 50lbs off of the Carnies. I will be lucky to get anything from the Buckfast, or Mn Hyg splits.

As for NWC, I suspect that they would be even better than the regular Carni, but I have heard that they are also more defensive.

You have to base your choices on what your goals are. If I want to expand, I would choose Buckfast, or Mn Hyg for the early spring buildup. If I'm looking for hives that overwinter very well, I would choose Carni. And my Carni hives seem to be putting up more honey than the others.

[Dan Williamson]

I have some Carni, some Mn Hyg, and some Buckfast queens.

As for spring buildup, I like the Buckfast. I haven't seen how the Mn Hyg and the Carni overwinter yet, but I read that the Carni hives will overwinter well.

The problem I have with the Carni hives is that its hard to get them to draw comb durring the swarm season. Even if they are only filling half of one deep, they will swarm before they will draw new comb, but then after swarm season ended, they went gang buster and surpassed ALL of the Buckfast and Mn Hyg in comb building, population, and production. I have Buckfast, and Mn Hyg splits that I just put a second deep on. My Carni splits exploded within the last two weeks, and I now have two deeps full of honey, and I'm adding honey supers to them now. If the flow continues, I think that I may get 50lbs off of the Carnies. I will be lucky to get anything from the Buckfast, or Mn Hyg splits.

As for NWC, I suspect that they would be even better than the regular Carni, but I have heard that they are also more defensive.

You have to base your choices on what your goals are. If I want to expand, I would choose Buckfast, or Mn Hyg for the early spring buildup. If I'm looking for hives that overwinter very well, I would choose Carni. And my Carni hives seem to be putting up more honey than the others.

Interesting...

I have no problem getting comb drawn with Carniolians.

My NWC are the most gentle bees I've ever had. I've never had a hot one. I've had some more gentle than others but never one I'd even call defensive.

I have had some daughter queens from some Mn Hyg that would eat you alive.

Interesting how people have different perspectives/experiences.

[peggjam]

I haven't had any luck with Buckfasts. I have a mixture of hives, alot of them in the back yard, (even my most defensive ones, that eat you alive if you pop the top), I also have 3 kids, two of whom play around the hives regularly, and haven't been stung, however they did play in the front yard around the pool, and got nailed, go figure:rolleyes:.

I have:
NWC
Russian
Mutt Italians:)

[spunky]

I have a queen from Old Sol, Fatbeeman, and generic italian that was from supercendence hive from Walter T's Kelly's.


Fatbeemans are comb drawing machines, way better than the italians. Cant tell about the Old Sol hive yet.

[Orion]

Great information all! Please keep it coming!

Doe’s anyone know of a good book for this or another link?
I do want more gentile bees because of the kids but the farms do not need this, at least until the kids are old enough to come watch and help. We do have a very early bloom here with out almonds and fruit so I think a early spring buildup might be good. I helped a close friend years ago with his bees but they were mostly local bees caught from swarms. Some were very aggressive and would come after us right of the bat. He hasn’t had bees for at least 15 years now though. I will always have bees at home for my fruit and garden, but I really want to start up an operation like we had before. Just better bees.

Thanks again all! Please keep the info coming.

Jim

Ps. How are your Russians?

[WVbeekeeper]

orion, here are a few links to george imirie's pink pages about queens;

what do you know about queens?
http://www.beekeep.org/component/option,com_alphacontent/section,9/cat,31/task,view/id,46/Itemid,43/
queens, queens, queens!
http://www.beekeep.org/component/option,com_alphacontent/section,9/cat,29/task,view/id,71/Itemid,43/

[Donna Marie, Honeybee by the Sea]

Hi,
just returned from a state beekeeping conference where a presenter from Washington State working with genetic variability gave a very interesting talk. It would appear that over the last ten years a great deal of genetic variation has been lost with only a relatively few queens responsible for the majority of queens being raised commercially.

There was however, a statistically significant difference in the genetic of West Coast raised queens and those found in the Southeast. Her suggestion was that there seemed to be a case for purchasing queens from the opposite coast in order to increase the gene pool of honeybees nationally. If I understood her correctly this would enhance the chances for 'survivor' qualities to develop genetically.

Just a thought, since you are in California, whatever race of bee you decide upon, perhaps an eastern raised queen might be an idea.

Cheers Donna Marie

[riverrat]

if I had a choice between the russians and Minnesota Hygenics I would take the MH I have both the Russians queens I have will lose out this fall in favor of the MH's

[IndianaHoney]

Dan, you're right, it is interesting. This is my first year using Carni queens. I was really disappointed because the five frame splits that I gave Carnies to were slow to take off, and wanted to swarm. I was worried about them having enough stores for winter, now I'm only worried about the MN Hyg, and the Buckfasts.

[Scut Farkas]

if I had a choice between the russians and Minnesota Hygenics I would take the MH I have both the Russians queens I have will lose out this fall in favor of the MH's

Riverrat - why do you favor the MH's over the Russians?

[Orion]

Still undecided and confused. I think I will hit the library today and see if they have any good books, which may help me. I really like the info from everyone so far; the queen articles in the links were very good as well. I think I am leaning towards NWC queens now but we have an early bloom here where I live. They may be good for the farms though.

Thanks! Jim

[BjornBee]

Orion,
No doubt you are going to get a comment good and bad for just about any line of bees you are looking at. Thats the way it is.

A couple of things....

SMR, is not a line of bees. It is a trait or behavior that can be bred into (or out) any line of bees. You have smr russians, smr carni's, etc.

If you are not against chemicals or even "soft" treatments, then I would consider italians. They are tad bit easier to work, give good honey yields, and are a good all around bee. I am assuming in California that harsh winters are not a factor and italians can be better than the far north.

If you were to go a more natural approach, or are against chemicals, I would go with a more hardier line such as russians or carni's. I think across the board, they overwinter better, and require less intervention with mites.

If I was going with smallcell or perhaps even top bar hives, I would favor the darker lines of russians and carni's.

I really think you need to come up with an IPM strategy, based on your management goals, whats important to you, and pick a line that favors your decisions.

I would also like to comment that choosing the right breeder is important. There are good breeders and bad. And they put out sometimes the same bee lines, but with various degrees of quality.

In the end, try a couple of this and a couple of that. Requeening is something you shoud be doing regularly anyways, so its easy to change a line if you are unhappy for whatever reason.

[Orion]

Key points! Thanks Bjorn!

Jim