Extractor Motors

[fuzzybeekeeper]

I purchased a used 20-frame extractor very cheaply last year. The guy had a 1/2 HP motor that was not attached to the extractor but he said it worked.

Now that I need to use the extractor, I figure out that the motor was never on the extractor and doesn't even work.

So I go looking for a motor only to find out that regular AC motors of that size will not work well with a speed control and I need to purchase a DC motor and speed control that costs three times what I paid for the extractor.

The extractor has a reducing pully with a spring-loaded slip-clutch. It uses two belts---one from the motor to the slip-clutch and one from there to the basket.

My question is---Can I use a regular 1750 RPM AC motor and "ease" the motor into the drive using the slip-clutch and the "give" on the belts or am I going to have to invest in a more expensive drive system? What are the chances of burning out a motor with this kind of "slow start" load on it? How strong of a motor do I need for a 20-frame extractor?

As an old German farmer (probably the chinchiest, most stubborn creature in the world), I hate to pay for something new when I can make something cheap work. I just wish I had learned my lesson before now and had spent the money to buy what I needed instead of just trying to "get by" cheaply.

By the way....the wife is going on a girls weekend tomorrow and I sure wanted to get this honey extracted while she was gone, if you know what I mean! The kitchen is a lot more accessable to messy things like that when she is gone!

Fuzzybeekeeper

[MichaelW]

I just went through a similar dilema hooking up the kelly 9 frame. Slip clutch probably works ok, but the speed control is super nice.

Resolution
Got on ebay and bought a new (but long stored) 1/4hp DC motor for $40 &shipping, then went to grainger.com and picked out the PRECISELY CORRECT speed controller board with an employee discount to be $50 ($75 without discount) Then wired it in with a large junction box to hold switch, nob, fuse and board. Works great!

It did take some homework figuring out what all those numbers meant, and remember the speed controller board must PRECISELY fit the attributes of the motor, which will appear on the motors model# info plate. Some control boards where on Ebay when I looked but the sellers didn't know what I was talking about when I asked for specific specifications.

[Tug Fork Bob]

Fuzzy:
I bought a Dadant "Little Wonder" extractor back in the 1970s that had a drive system similar to what you describe. The shaft that has 2 pulleys on it are held together on the shaft by a large wing nut with a brass washer between them that serves as a clutch. You control the speed of the basket by turning the wing nut tighter to spin the basket faster.It's not a radial extractor so it only holds 4 deep frames but it works fine.

Bob

[carbide]

I've got a four frame tangential reversible extractor that I ripped everything out and turned into a 20 frame radial. The basket has a pulley on top with a belt going to a secondary pulley on a shaft with a pulley on the opposite end of the shaft that goes to the motor. There originally was a clutch in line but I removed it to accomodate the re-work of the drive system. I sized the pulleys to step the motor speed down from 1750 rpm to a basket speed of approx. 325 rpm.

I adjusted the belt coming off of the motor so that it has a little bit of give in it. When I start the motor it takes maybe two to three seconds to get the basket up to speed. So far I've run about 70-80 frames through the extractor with no problem.

BTW, the motor is a Westinghouse 120V, 1/3hp, 1750 rpm.

[AstroBee]

I've never tried this, nor do I know if it would work in your application, but you might want to look at a router speed control, like the one here:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=43060

[fuzzybeekeeper]

MichaelW,

How did you get from AC to DC? Is that part of the motor or the speed control? Or did you need a seperate converter?

As you can tell, I'm not much of an electrican.

And thanks to everyone else for the replies. I was going to try this with an AC motor but was worried about burning up a $100 motor. I feel a lot more confident about my adventure now.

Keep the ideas flowing!

Fuzzybeekeeper

[The Honey House]

Here's is what hangs off the side of my extractors.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b221/DaveNH/MTS009.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b221/DaveNH/MTS011.jpg

[chief]

My Extractor uses a double belt with a clutch as well. The motor spins full speed without the need of a speed control and I slowly tighten the wingnut on the clutch untill the basket gets up to speed. It works well and is cheaper than a speed control. It sounds like yours is set up for this and with a little work I am sure you can rig something up with the motor you have and save some money.

[MichaelW]

It was part of the speed controller board, AC in DC out. Here is nearly the same model http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/2M510

[kc in wv]

Fuzzy:
I bought a Dadant "Little Wonder" extractor back in the 1970s that had a drive system similar to what you describe. The shaft that has 2 pulleys on it are held together on the shaft by a large wing nut with a brass washer between them that serves as a clutch. You control the speed of the basket by turning the wing nut tighter to spin the basket faster.It's not a radial extractor so it only holds 4 deep frames but it works fine.

Bob

That Dadant sells a conversion kit for the Little Wonder that converts it to a 6 frame radial. I converted mine last fall for about 130.00.

[tecumseh]

fuzzy sezs:
My question is---Can I use a regular 1750 RPM AC motor and "ease" the motor into the drive using the slip-clutch and the "give" on the belts or am I going to have to invest in a more expensive drive system? What are the chances of burning out a motor with this kind of "slow start" load on it? How strong of a motor do I need for a 20-frame extractor?

tecumseh replies:
I use an old (heavy) variable speed ac 1/2 hp drill motor directly attached to the reel shaft on my converted 10 frame radial. I use a 'physic' lab variable voltage coil to control voltage to the motor and thus rpm of the reel. I think??? the motor I use has a maximum speed of about 600 rpm.. which is about twice the necessary rpm's for honey extraction.

If you need to take a look at one in action come on over and look at mine. The drill motor should be easily acquired and the speed control may???? be obtainable from a friend (the last time I looked he had two in his storage/parts shed).

then fuzzy ask:
How did you get from AC to DC? Is that part of the motor or the speed control? Or did you need a seperate converter?

tecumseh replies:
you can construct a simple circuit with a pentometer (I hope I spelled that right) to convert ac to dc power. it is a reasonable cheap circuit to construct.

pm me if you wish to take a look...

[Ross]

My 20 frame Dadant came with the double belt and slip clutch. It works just fine and is pretty much bullet proof. By a cheap 1750 rpm motor (or get a junk one from a washing machine or such). You're already setup for variable speed without any DC motors or controllers. If you really want to go DC, get on eBay and get a treadmill motor and controller.

[fuzzybeekeeper]

As I look closer at the "slip-clutch" on the extractor, I think it is the kind described by Ross and Chief. Of course, it was dark when I got out to the barn to look at it last night, but it begins to make sense now. I think all I really need is a working motor and everything should work fine.

Thanks for all the replys. Sometimes I see things working a certain way in my mind and I don't allow other possibilities to bounce around and shake those ideas up enough.

I just saw my wife off on her trip so I have a full weekend ahead of me extracting honey. I am now making frantic phone calls to all the bakeries in town looking for food-grade 5 gallon buckets to hold what I think will be in the hives. But that is the subject of another thread already active here.

Again, THANKS!!! for all the help.

Fuzzybeekeeper

[Tug Fork Bob]

Been gone for a couple of days so just now saw your tip on converting my Dadant "little Wonder" to a Radial.

Thanks

Bob