View Full Version : House Wall Extraction
OldScout
07-10-2007, 03:22 PM
OK, got a call from a friend who "heard" i kept a few hives. He has bees in the exterior wall of his house. He just notice a few days ago. The exterminator said they are honey bees (yep, they are) and that bees have it hard enough as it is. He won't kill them. Is it possible to extract without tearing out the exterior walls? Friend needs help but, as we know, a swarm in July aint' worth a fly. Should I really tell him the wall must be partially removed???????
iddee
07-10-2007, 03:35 PM
http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=188027&highlight=trapout
http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=210257&highlight=trapout
A search for "trapout" works wonders.
riverrat
07-10-2007, 03:37 PM
there is ways to get the hive out without tearing out the wall but I wouldnt recommend them. one way would be to use a cone method which takes several weeks after the bees are out you could let them rob the honey out of the wall. bee go or bee quick if it is hot enough out will run them out I have not tried this but have seen post on this method someone else will have to comment on the bee go. But I can say if the honey is left in the wall it will attract mice ants termites and other pests left alone sooner or later he may have a far bigger mess than he originally bargained for than the cutout.
if possible to do I would suggest doing a cut out from the inside. sheet rock is a lot cheaper and easier to fix than exterior walls. not to mention easier and less work than cutting up an exterior wall. if you cut a large enough hole in the wall use a beevac and band the old comb in frames you have a far better chance of gaining a new hive than doing the cone. this is just from my experiences
WVbeekeeper
07-10-2007, 03:46 PM
if he just has vinyl siding on the outside of his his house with osb under it, it would be easier to go in from the outside. now stuff like stucco, brick, aluminum siding, and masonite siding are more difficult to deal with. with exterior coverings such as those, i would get to the hive from the inside. you can use a stethoscope on the drywall or paneling to get a good idea where the brood nest is so you aren't just poking random holes in the wall trying to find it.
OldScout
07-10-2007, 05:13 PM
He has decided to just nuke them. They have been there since the 4th of July so they couldn't have built up much inside. He just plans to spray Yellowjacket/hornet spray down the hole at night time and then spray foam filler into the hole to prevent the bees from coming back. He's not interested in saving the bees and he's not going to rip out his rock/granite exterior siding nor his master bedroom wall from the inside. Unfortunately, we are not close to any bee suppliers to try to squirt Bee Quick (or something) down the hole and drive out the queen. I offered to bring my baited swarm catcher (old nuc box) over after he tried to drive them out with Bee Quick but he declined. I don't have a cone trapper.
GRIMBEE
07-10-2007, 05:51 PM
Don't get caught. Killing honeybees is against the law. check before you spray.:mad::(:eek:
riverrat
07-10-2007, 07:24 PM
cones are easily made by using screen
riverrat
07-11-2007, 03:51 AM
if he just noticed them on the 4th they may have been there longer most of the extractions I do that is the story the home owner gives there is usually a time difference of when the bees actually arrive and when there noticed. they could have been there several months if it is in an out of the way place. this may not be the case. but from my experiences it is usually the norm I did one extraction last year bees been ther 4 days according to the homeowner. when I cut them out they had 4 foot of comb built down the soffet of the eveas. when it gets hot is when they finally notice them. going from experiences my money is on a future mess and a stench :D why the hurry to kill them you could have bee go in hand in a couple of days or a cone made the same day
bluegrass
07-11-2007, 04:34 AM
I was over at a freinds farm this past week and we were out walking around the house when I looked up and seen a bunch of bees comming and going from under a window sill. I said "how long have the bees been there?" and his reply was what bees?........I will be getting them this weekend:D
Don't let old wives tales fool you.......a swarm of bees any time of year is worth $60.00 ;)
Grim:
Its great if CT has a law protecting honey bees......its not true anywhere else in the country....actually a few states even require by law extermination if they go feral.
ScadsOBees
07-11-2007, 07:26 AM
I've seen a lot of hives this year that were sprayed and that usually hasn't worked.
He's going to spray into the hive. The spray will hit the first comb, and since they are all angled in there, that will kill a the bees on that comb.
Then he will close up the cavity. All of the remaining bees (most of original bees) will now be trying to find a new entrance, and will go through any crack, including some that might get inside.
That is when he will call you back.....
Rick
Don't get caught. Killing honeybees is against the law. check before you spray.:mad::(:eek:
Grimbee, can you refer me to a site where I can see the written law? I don't think it's law in NC, but I'd like to see a form so I could pursue it here.
Bees in a wall are not the same as a swarm. I seldom find the queen in a cutout, but I almost always get a queen in a swarm. That's one big reason to charge for cutouts, that and it's hard work.
Bee Draggle
07-11-2007, 07:59 AM
[QUOTE=GRIMBEE Don't get caught. Killing honeybees is against the law. check before you spray.:mad::(:eek:[/QUOTE]
I too would like to see some documentation on this. If there is such a law it surely makes provisions for killing honey bees when they pose a danger to people’s health or property. Even beeks kill bees on occasion such a hive with afb or an overly aggressive hive. Is that against the law too?
samiyam318
07-11-2007, 08:36 AM
I could find no law or regulation that outlaws the killing of honeybees in North Carolina. There are laws and regulations protecting the honeybee, but they have to do mostly with crop spraying and spreading disease and pests.
North Carolina takes its honeybees seriously. The honeybee has been designated as the state insect.
MapMan
07-11-2007, 08:52 AM
I could find no law or regulation that outlaws the killing of honeybees in North Carolina. There are laws and regulations protecting the honeybee, but they have to do mostly with crop spraying and spreading disease and pests.
North Carolina takes its honeybees seriously. The honeybee has been designated as the state insect.
So have the following other states: Arkansas, Georgia, Kansas, Louisiana, Maine, Mississippi, Missouri, Nebraska, New Jersey, Oklahoma, South Dakota, Tennessee, Utah, Vermont, West Virginia, and, of course -- Wisconsin:cool:.
MM
GA-BEE
07-11-2007, 09:18 AM
Whoever said that about the 'swarm in July ain't worth a fly' doesn't know much about bees.
Free bees anytime are a good thing. Especially a swarm - your getting a new queen which means new genetics - maybe good, maybe bad genetics but you are still getting the diversity.
I'll take free bees anytime, and make good hives of them - anytime of the year.
geoffkb
07-11-2007, 09:23 AM
Whoever said that about the 'swarm in July ain't worth a fly' doesn't know much about bees.
I always wonder whether a 'load of hay in May' is worth more than a 'silver spoon in June', or the other way round. And does it apply to all climates, I suppose it would be meaningless in the southern hemisphere?
I always wonder whether a 'load of hay in May' is worth more than a 'silver spoon in June', or the other way round.
Maybe, maybe not. But if we turned it around, it wouldn't rhyme!
OldScout
07-11-2007, 02:32 PM
I haven't heard from my friend so I don't know how well he did. The swarm goes in and out a hole in the wall less than fifteen feet from the front door of the house and on a deck that is used daily. I was at a 4th of July party at the house for hours and there were many people at the party. No one saw the bees then. I'll post when I hear from the guy.
livetrappingbymatt
07-11-2007, 07:01 PM
my experience has been that every time a home owner sprays bees they end up calling someone to straighten out the mess they make! most often bee sprays just p*ss the bees off and every one near by gets stung!
wait him out than charge more to take them away.
bob
Deano
07-11-2007, 08:57 PM
in walls like brick,trees ,or any time they want them dead i use 7 dust. 10%blow dust in hole, use as much as the area will hold. the dust gets on their hairscarry deep in hive killing the whole thing in 2 or three days .the dust will stop ants mice , other bugs from going back in that area. seal hole ,collect $$$.
MapMan
07-11-2007, 09:25 PM
in walls like brick,trees ,or any time they want them dead i use 7 dust. 10%blow dust in hole, use as much as the area will hold. the dust gets on their hairscarry deep in hive killing the whole thing in 2 or three days .the dust will stop ants mice , other bugs from going back in that area. seal hole ,collect $$$.
I take it you mean Sevin® (another inorganic, carbaryl insecticide that Bayer CropScience produces...) and not 7, which is touted as being a lucky number, which wouldn't apply to the unlucky bees.
MM
Deano
07-12-2007, 06:40 PM
i hate to kill the bees too. but in some cases you can,t help it. the last home i went to some good old boy shot roach spray, gas & get this ,used smoke bomb to run the bees out of brick wall. none worked the owenrs wanted them out. pest control companys turn these jobs down. i try to be a help.
Dusting is not a good option when it comes to killing bees. I have seen hives propolize dusts, and survive, plus you contaminate foraging bees that may try and rob honey from the area, and dusts are slow to work. If you absolutely have to kill a hive inject the colony with a fumigant that leaves no residual. Then, bee proof the area. Of course once the hive is killed it should be removed. Now I personally remove hives when they are alive and re-locate them, unless they have been contaminated with dusts. Never use dusts, never. As riverrat mentioned, I also find that people unknowingly underestimate how long they have had bees. I have many examples of this. I am sorry if I offended those who use dusts, but...
MapMan
07-13-2007, 11:22 AM
Sorry, Deano - I thought "killing the little brownies" as you termed it with a dust compound such as Sevin as extreme. You recommend to use "as much dust as the area will hold", and since this is in a contained area (wall) the powder doesn't have a chance to break down in the environment (which Bayer says it will:confused:). The homeowner risks the chance of pesticide exposure (and future homeowners???) if remodeling, upgrades, etc. happen in the future. You really have to think about the implications of pesticide application - residuals, over-spray, affect on beneficial insects/wildlife, etc. before you give "advice". That is why many states require at least a certification process before you can purchase and apply some nasty pesticides/herbicides on agricultural crops - I only wish that the average homeowner would have to attend a similar course before buying similar products off the shelves.
MM
This thread caused me to go look up how many states selected the honey bee as their state insect.
I was surprised how many.
Here is a list......
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._state_insects
MapMan
07-13-2007, 12:07 PM
Texas has the mosquito as its state insect:confused:. What's wrong with you Texans??
Don't understand that one. Next it will be Malaria as the state disease.:D
MM
geoffkb
07-13-2007, 01:53 PM
Texas has the mosquito as its state insect:confused:. What's wrong with you Texans?? MM
I was told that the large Texan mosquito was the Texas state bird! :D
WindsorDavid
07-13-2007, 03:14 PM
I just did a search of the Connecticut General Statutes. I could not find a section that specifically prohibits killing honey bees. Section 22a-54 does say the following:
(c) The following provisions shall govern the certification of applicators:
(1) No person shall engage in commercial application of pesticides within this state at any time without a certificate issued in accordance with the provisions of this section. No person shall engage in the private application of restricted use pesticides without a certificate issued in accordance with the provisions of this section. Application for such certificate shall be made to the commissioner and shall contain such information regarding the applicant's qualifications and proposed operations and other relevant matters including, but not limited to, a knowledge of integrated pest management and the role of honey bees in agriculture, pesticides that are especially toxic to honey bees, and methods of application which minimize damage to honey bees, as the commissioner may require.