What would you do?

[IndianaHoney]

I have a few hives that I made from splits in April of this year. Some of them have grown and should be strong enough to make a small crop. Some of them should just end up strong enough to make it through winter.

However, I have about six of them that haven't really made any progress. I've thought about requeening, however, on inspection I always find lots of eggs, and brood. They just don't seem to grow any larger for some reason.

We have had lots of dry weather, and I assume that those hives have just simply shut down brood rearing at times. One of the hives is Min Hyg, the others are Carni.

The hives that I'm worried about started out as five frame splits, and some are still five frames, a couple of them are about seven frames strong now.

I really don't want to combine because my goal is to increase the number of hives that I have. I will combine if it is unavoidable. It seems that the hives that were able to build their numbers enough to fill one deep were able to pull in enough nectar to make progress. I would like to get these weeker hives back on track. We have about 6-8 weeks of a good strong flow left (if we get some rain), thats only two brood cycles. What would you guys do to get them back on track?

[Fuzzy]

For each weak one, try to provide one frame of covered/emerging brood
from the stronger ones. This provides an immediate boost of "house bees" and should perk the hive right up. Personally I would not steal more than one frame of brood from any one hive.
If that means that you still have a couple weak ones left you will need another solution.

Fuzzy

[BULLSEYE BILL]

The open brood in your strong hives will not likely make foraging flights for at least four weeks, by then the flow will be mostly over. I'd take a couple of frames of open brood for each of the nucs and feed, feed, feed. the nucs. Also, removing the open brood will free up nurse and house bees to forage now while there is a good flow.

My swarms and small hives are taking a lot of feed right now. We have had zilch for a flow this year, no crop for me. :( So feeding is my only option.

[BjornBee]

Indiana,
So how many are we talking about? From a percentage standpoint? 10%, 20%or more?

I will assume at this point these must of been purchased queens. Yes, it would be nice to have "tested" and verified layers with a history, etc. But you say you did the splits in April. I won't go as far as labeling every breeder, but April queens are usually across the board, less quality of say queens raised later in the year. But at least they were not drone layers as some experience early in the spring with the "see an egg, pull the queen" type operations.

Egg producers cull the bad chickens. Not every cow will be a great milker. And not every queen, no matter how good the breeder, will be a great or even a good queen. Were dealing with insects that have genetic variations, stress in mailing, any possible problems within the industry with viral/bacterial/chemical/ and other outside influeneces, that make queens somewhat questionable at best. The demand alone in April for queens pushes the industry to the limit. And yes, I'll hear from the "they should not of sold it if it was not good!" crowd. But a reality check of the industry and what we are dealing with is also something worth considering. Understanding that and adjusting your management sometimes is best.

So how many queens did you pinch this year? The average beekeeper tries to save everything. I guess thats our nature as beekeepers and humans. We do it becuase we think we have the ability to change or control what mother nature throws at us. Sometimes we do it becuase killing something is just not part of our makeup.

I know you thought about requeening. Good. Way ahead of some, thats for sure. You will hear of the situation about some beekeeper "babying" a queen or a hive all summer and winter, and having a booming hive the next year. Yeah sure. Like I want to play those odds. There's a better chance if its a dud this past summer, needs babying all winter, then it will be a dud next spring ...if its alive!

Look at the time, cost, and additional resources that you may spend on a hive that may not come around. The enviroment should not be a factor, as other hives have prospered. So what else is there? For me, robbing from the good ones, time spent in trying to build up a weak hive, additional feed, and other efforts, comes after requeening.

There are many things we can not openly "see". Is the queen a carrier of one of the many virus or bacterial issues that may cut a bees lifespan short? Are the larvae infected, and being culled out at a high rate that is prohibiting the bees from growing?

I had a weak hive that I left sit for most of the spring. Not to save, but to learn and see what was going on. After they have built to a certain strength, they are now on a mission of ripping out all the pollen and most of the wax. Why? I don't know. I suspect something tainted or poisoned the hive and this really made this hive a slow one.

I'm not suggesting poisoning, just mentioning that there are many reasons. Requeening is a good place to start that has the best odds of making a difference. Everything else comes second, and is much harder to understand.

[Ravenseye]

My very first hive last year was a slow hive from the get go. I just didn't know it since I had nothing to compare it to. So, I fed and checked and fretted but, by August I still only had one deep of bees on frames that were barely pulled. I tossed the upper hive deep on and baited it with a frame of mixed brood to get the queen moving up. Come mid-August I find open queen cells! Then, I find both queens...side by side on a frame. The original (marked) queen was pretty but the new one looked like a tank! A short while later, only the new queen was left. By the end of the year that hive had exploded with bees and over-wintered with a very high population. So, they superseded for a reason. I may never know exactly why but the difference in the hive growth from one queen to another was simply amazing.

Just my observation!

[paulnewbee1]

I had the same problem with the two pacs I got one ate all the sugar in transport the other ate only about 4 oz. I put both in the deep and the strong one took off I have one super on at this time and opened up the top with the wedge they are do great. the weak one was real bad I would open it up and they just sat there looking like they were sick. I feed then until last week. they were still slow after I took the feeder off and checked them on last week. they still looked bad. Yesterday I called and was going to get a new queen. Went out to do my 10 day check and I opened the weak hive up and they were bees all over and they are now begining to flay like they have not done before I put them in at the April 30th. I feel they finally made a new queen. Nature did it for me. I found one swarm cell that was empty at the bottom of one frame.
I would agree with the rest cobine ore wait anther couple of weeks and see what happens. Nature finds a way to help us. That is if it their destany.

Good luk

[IndianaHoney]

Bjornbee,

You are very right about something, I didn't pinch any queens this year. However, everyone of the weak nucs were given new laying queens that came from Florida, or California. Also, I didn't pinch any because the queens were laying good patterns.

Earlier I stated that one was a Mn Hyg, and the other five were Carni. After looking at my notes I realized that I was wrong. Four of them were Carni queens that were purchased in late April, but they were banked for a while, so I assume he got them in early April. One was a a Buckfast that was purchased in mid April, and the sixth one was a Mn Hyg that was shipped May 7th. In all of the hives that are thriving, they have great brood patterns. In every weak hive, the brood patterns are smaller, but I see lots of eggs. Something that I am seeing is lots of empty cells within the brood area that lead me to believe that the workers are removing a portion of the brood for some reason. I did treat for mites earlier in the year, and counts seem to be low. I did notice some chalk brood in all of the splits this year, but that was limited. There are no cells with punctured cappings. The biggest thing that I can't figure out is that I always see lots of eggs, but it seems like the large hatchouts that should happen three weeks later are just not happening.

[Dan Williamson]

In my opinion, if these splits where made in April and they haven't gone anywhere then they probably won't.

I know you don't want to combine but keeping one or more weak hives just to keep a certain number of hives gets you nowhere. Actually it eats up resources as Bjorn said. Sometimes its best to cut your losses and move on.

Queen rearing nucs I started in late April with 1 frame of sealed brood and 1 frame of honey are 1 med and 1 deep full of bees and working on another deep. (That is AFTER I made splits for more queen nucs off of them!) Your 5 framers should be much further along!