White , mummy like

[rapid524]

In the last couple of days I've seen two white, "mummy like" bees on the outside of the hive. The first really did look like a mummy and was not fully developed but the second appeared to be and was moving a bit. I've searched and cannot find an explanation of what's going on. Any suggestions?

[gardenbees]

That's what it sounds like. I have had this situation too and have been told it can be caused by poor ventilation. There are just a few now and then so I'm not worrying about it. Others may have a better answer. Theresa.

[Dave W]

Chalkbrood is a possibility . . .

You'll probably first notice hard, white, or black-and-white mummies on landing board or on ground in front of hive [Ref 19, p80] (white “pellets” that kind of look like small corn kernels [Michael Bush. posted 1/16/06 at www.beesource.com].
• Larvae die after cells are capped [Ref 21, p116].
• Cappings can show whitish marks [Ref 21, p116].
• Brood cells containing mummies appear to be filled w/ hard, white chalk [PHOTO-Ref 19, p81]. They may rattle when moving frame. Some may have black spots when the disease has matured to the point of producing spores. Look for "white" cells at the edge of broodnest [Ref 19, p81].
• Infected larvae are chalky white and moldy, may be gray, become hard, and may turn black. Easily confused w/ chilled brood, but chilled brood bodies are soft and translucent. Usually 1 frame contains most of the diseased cells. Remove and replace w/ new frame. No medical treatment necessary [Ref 1, p171]. Diseased bees are usually covered w/ filaments that have a fluffy, cotton-like appearance [Ref 14, p154].
• Colonies exposed to wet areas, cool conditions and shade are more susceptible [ABJ, 5/05, p417].
• Pops up most frequently during damp conditions in early spring [Source??]. Most notable in mid to late spring, when stress on colony is highest [Ref 19, p80]. May be too much moisture in the hive, add ventilation [Michael Bush. posted 1/16/06 at www.beesource.com].


But, Im not sure about a mummy "moving a bit". That sounds like a pupae thats been extracted form its cell, probably due to V-mites.

[rapid524]

Thanks for the help. I'd planned on opening up the hive for an inspection this week, so I'll look closely at the larva and brood to see what's going on.

[Michael Bush]

You're saying one was moving? Chalkbrood mummies do not move. They are like little semi-hard pieces of chalk. I think we need a picture or a more detailed description of why you think they look like mummies. Are the covered in something? Are they white? Are they dark? Are they shiny?

[BjornBee]

Not sure about the chalk with the movement and all. What about some damaged larvae from breaking into the boxes and inspecting? Sometimes you see larvae being removed and dumped a day or two after damaging burr comb from taking the boxes apart or removing frames. Or larvae being infested with mites (or other reasons) and they are cleaning them out???

[peggjam]

I've never seen chalkbrood mummies move either. Bjorn has a good explanation of what could be going on.....damaged brood or brood with mite infestation:) .

[JohnK and Sheri]

We sometimes see a bit of this when we get loads back from California and chalk it up to stress. These colonies have lots of brood including lots of drones when they are picked up, we figure maybe the move makes them think they are getting ahead of themsleves a bit and they drag some of that drone larvae out.
A sudden cold snap might initiate the same response? Any other stress factors at work?
Sheri

[Dave W]

With the ideas being tossed around, it might be helpful to have a "text book" explanation of a bee "mummy". I wish I could give one :)

Chalkbrood disease covers larvae w/ a web-like material that resembles gauze. At this stage, they resemble "soft" and "fluffy" mummies. If the healthy bees do not carry these mummies out, the mummies will get hard as the fungus reaches the reproduction stage. They then turn black. As the fungus advances, a mixture of white, black, and white-black mummies can be found [Ref 20, p221].

An UNHATCHED bee pupa is white (like a mummy) and has it legs retracted (like a mummy). It's very easy for me to hear the word "mummy" and relate that to what a normal bee pupa look like. :)

[thesurveyor]

I have a hive that has the same issues. It sees that some are dead pupa being carried out by workers and I have seen one bee that resembled a very pale bee that looked very ragged even looked like it was very old or no fully developed, it was moving on its own, but kinda moving with no real sense of purpose.

Really do not know how to explain it.

[Dave W]

UNHATCHED pupa outside the cell is caused by the bees removing them :)
Reason for removal in spring (w/ cold weather) can be normal. Otherwise, removal can be a very strong indicator of mite problems.

I havent said it in a while, but . . .
Monitor, monitor, monitor, monitor, monitor, and monitor :)

[beebarf]

It seems to be the cold, damp weather that causes chackbrood for me. the only time I ever get it is when I reverse my brood boxes early, then it gets cold and rainy again. when I look at them, it's always the ones that are on the outside,(out of the cluster from the reversal) that get it. It only last till they are all removed, then they are fine...

[gardenbees]

Would the removal be a good sign of hygenic behavior or a sign that the hive has a potenially fatal mite population? Theresa.

[Dave W]

How DO we know if open cells are from mite damage or from good hygienic behavior . . . , that’s a VERY GOOD question.

Any idea?????

[gardenbees]

Dave,
I ask this question because I am begining to see drones being dragged out as well. I have resisted chemical treatments so far and this is the third year for my hives. They are both quite strong with an impending honey flow. I really want them to be able to handle this mite load without treatment but I fear I am putting my head in the sand. This is really a steep learning curve and If I do end up losing them I will know what not to do next time. Theresa.

[rapid524]

Well, this same hive now has 200 to 300 dead bees outside (some still on the bottom board screen that haven't been pushed out after a three-day cold spell). Many of them outside have pollen attached to their legs. I opened up the hive last week before the cold snap and didn't notice anything unusual inside. There were five to six frames of capped brood and everything looked pretty good. I did a sugar dusting and noticed very few mites. There were more dead bees than usual outside though, a couple of these also had pollen.

Is it possible they got into someone's pesticide spray?

[Dave W]

gardenbees . . .

>I am begining to see drones being dragged out . . .

That might be "normal" due to very cold and no nectar coming in, the hive is just "unlaoding the free loaders".

What are your current NATURAL mite drop numbers?


rapid524 . . .

>200 to 300 dead bees outside . . .

Yes, it could be pesticide. DEAD ADULT BEES are commonly found at hive entrance. Under normal circumstances, you may find fewer than 15 to 20 fresh bees dead in front of colony on a typical morning (a normal colony will lose about 100 bees a day inside the nest [Ref 9, p116]). Abnormally large accumulation (several thousand) of dead bees at hive entrance, piling up slowly over a period of 1 or more days, can occur when pesticides kill bees.