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Jon McFadden
03-16-2007, 07:03 PM
After several trials and modifications, two members of the bee club I belong to, Foothills Beekeepers Association have been successful in reducing the number of Small Hive Beetles in hives.
The state bee inspector was skeptical as to the worth of their development, but after seeing their results, is endorsing the treatment. I donít know if this is something someone has tried elsewhere, but it is the first Iíve heard of it.
The two guys that developed the treatment are:
Sonney, beemaker at hotmail dot com and Mel, melemcc at yahoo dot com.
You can get more information by e-mailing them.

Ann
03-16-2007, 08:21 PM
How are they going to feel about being peppered with e-mail inquiries? Wouldn't it be better to just post the method here? Or are they going to sell it?

drobbins
03-16-2007, 08:24 PM
two guesses
first one doesn't count:)

Dave

hrogers
03-16-2007, 10:20 PM
Howdy Ann --
Could be that the folks do not want to be exposed to the diatribe of "That's not approved".
Doc

Jon McFadden
03-16-2007, 11:17 PM
They are not trying to sell it. I just don't want to "steal their thunder". As soon as I have a chance, I will try it out. One of the requirements is to have hive beetles which I haven't found in my hives, yet. When I do, I will post the information with pictures, etc. as I always do.
If you live in Arkansas, and took a class from the state bee inspector, you would receive this information from him.
I don't care one way or another. I just thought there might be someone who could use the information.
And, you might be right, this might be an imposition on them, but being acquainted with Mel, this is the kind of thing he does. How many people do you know who would volunteer to help the paid professionals eradicate AHB colonies for the fun of it?
Jon

Ann
03-17-2007, 06:19 AM
Howdy Ann --
Could be that the folks do not want to be exposed to the diatribe of "That's not approved".
DocAh. Well, I can't blame them there....:eek:

sc-bee
03-17-2007, 07:13 AM
I'll be glad to shoot them an e-mail and give it a try if they respond. I definitely have the subjects to run the experiment on :mad: .

Ann
03-17-2007, 05:00 PM
I'll be glad to shoot them an e-mail and give it a try if they respond. I definitely have the subjects to run the experiment on :mad: .
I hope you get a respoonse, I'm waiting to see if they respond to me :)

notaclue
03-18-2007, 10:46 PM
I'm going through the workshop now that Foothills is sponsoring. I've spoke with the inspector about them and I've tried to make some up, but I need to compare them to what Sonny and Mel already made and was available at the workshop. I still need to get in the hives and do some spring cleaning before I try them.

Not to take anything away from anyone but I figure the SonnyMel Trap coupled with the wax moth 2 liter bottle traps would be part of a great IPM combo for SHB. With one a narrow and the other a broad spectrum management tool.

Jon McFadden
04-20-2007, 01:57 AM
Small update.
I talked to Mel and Sonny tonight at the club meeting. Apparently they had some problems mailing out the information because of the large file size. They have given me more pictures and I was able to look at one of their traps first hand.
As soon as I can, I will make some 3D drawings in Solidworks that will make things easier to understand.
Mel has talked to Kim Flottum, Bee Culture, and they are talking about an article in that publication.
As I said, they are glad to provide the information free. They just want to help.
Dave, http://www.beeworks.com/forum/index.php, talked to Mel and has posted some pictures and the bulk of the instructions on his website, so there is another source available until I can get the stuff I have posted.
One funny thing that occurred tonight. One of the other members and Ed, the State Bee Inspector, got into a discussion about the recent heavy frost that swept through Arkansas during Easter. This guy opened one of his hives to check the condition of the beetles. There were larvae lying motionless on the bottom board. This guy said they were apparently dead from the cold. Ed responded with the information that they had frozen larvae until they were hard, then allowed them to defrost with the result that the larvae revived. This guy told Ed that these wouldn't revive because he had smashed them!

JohnBeeMan
04-23-2007, 09:05 AM
>>>these wouldn't revive because he had smashed them!

Guaranteed SHB kill method: Use two blocks of wood. Place SHB on first block of wood. Bring two blocks of wood together with great force. Beware of spray. ;)

Tillie
04-25-2007, 03:25 PM
I have SHBs here in Georgia - the bees kept them under control last year and I smashed them every time I saw one. I also bought from Brushy Mountain, I believe, a SHB trap that goes on a frame and is armed with apple cider vinegar that the SHBs love to dive into. Every time I opened the hive at the end of last season there would be 30 or so dead SHB floating in the apple cider vinegar.

Jamie Ellis and Keith Delaplane have been doing research on using nematodes to combat SHB. My hives are on my deck, however, and using nematodes I believe requires soil under the hives. The nematode has to be a specific type. I think there's a reference here:
http://www.ent.uga.edu/bees/Newsletter/aug2005.htm

Jamie talked to our Metro Atlanta bee club about it but I'm at work and can't find the reference until I get home. Oh, here it is - from the meeting minutes:
"The person to contact about nematodes for use in small hive beetle control is Louis Tedders of Southeastern Insectaries in Perry, Georgia. He will know which species to use, how to use them, and what it will cost. His phone number is 478-988-9412."

Another supplier of the nematodes is:
Jim Kluttz
Beneficial Insect Company
336-973-8490

Linda T

Walliebee
04-26-2007, 08:56 AM
The two species of nematodes are Heterohabditis indica and H. oswega. They locate and infest beetle pupae in the soil.

This is still expermental and would be one step in a control program.

One still needs to use control measures within the hive for adults. Mature beetles fly long distances to infect your hive.

sc-bee
04-27-2007, 11:04 PM
Thanks for the link. I have some hood traps already, I'm gonna mix some lure and try it in them!!!

Tillie
04-29-2007, 01:58 PM
I'm going for a full-on attack against the SHB this year. I always kill them when I open my hives, so although I have the Brushy Mtn. trap in two of my hives, I'm going to try the Mel and Sonny method.

This morning I mixed up the lure and put it in a dark cabinet to ferment for a few days. I rounded up a few plastic bottle caps and will be off soon to buy plastic sandwich containers and FGMO.

Here's my start:
http://beekeeperlinda.blogspot.com/2007/04/full-on-attack-against-small-hive.html

I'll let you know how it works!

Linda T in Atlanta where the SHB lives happily among the bees

Tillie
04-30-2007, 10:39 PM
Thank you, Jon, for starting this thread. Mel and Sonny are both so generous with their time and idea sharing. They've individually been answering emails from me and adding thoughts later - both of them.

Anyone with any hesitation about contacting them should go right ahead. They seem eager to share and to pass this method of SHB attack on to others.

I'm building a shallow box for my hive to go around the sandwich container. Who knew when I started beekeeping that I would be learning so much about constructing things! (Robber screens last year, SHB traps and 1X2 shim boxes this year!)

I'll let you know how it goes.

Linda T

Beorn
05-07-2007, 09:21 PM
Tillie,

Brushy Mountain Traps for SHB. I like the idea of using vinegar instead of chemicals to catch the buggers. Is the a website to link to?

Tillie
05-07-2007, 09:27 PM
Here's the Brushy Mtn Bee site:
http://www.brushymountainbeefarm.com/products.asp?pcode=296

I'm working on making the SHB trap developed by Sonny and Mel, but was out of town and haven't gotten to it yet - I do have all the materials and have made the lure so I'm almost in business! Watch out Atlanta SHBs.

Linda T

Tillie
05-26-2007, 06:01 PM
Yesterday I put the whole small hive beetle trap together and installed it on my hives today. I made a video of the whole thing, if it would be helpful to anyone. The video is on my blog:

http://beekeeperlinda.blogspot.com/2007/05/small-hive-beetle-trap-saga.html

I'll let you know how many of the little bugs drown in the mineral oil!

Linda T in Atlanta, hot on the trail of the SHB

Rob-bee
05-26-2007, 09:37 PM
I watch your video and was wondering are the holes you made big enough for the beetle to enter? Looked small from the video and the SHB I have here might not fit. So if none are inside that could be one reason.

Anyway waiting for the results on the lure, to see what kind of luck you had with it. Hopes it works wonders because I will sure use it if it does.

Tillie
05-27-2007, 07:10 AM
I wondered about the hole size as well and when I looked again at Sonny and Mel's pictures, theirs were bigger than mine - so before I put the boxes on the hives I enlarged the holes on two sides of each box. I just don't want to get bees in the box.

If it doesn't work, the first thing I'll do is enlarge the holes again.

Linda T

drobbins
05-27-2007, 01:03 PM
Tillie

here's a couple of similar traps I built

http://www.drobbins.net/bee's/shb/

haven't tried em yet
I think I'll mix up a little of your brew to try them out with

Dave

Doorman
05-27-2007, 05:50 PM
I made some sandwich box traps about three weeks ago. I was told a 3/16 hole.
I didn't have that size so I used a #16 bit which is a hair smaller than 3/16. I killed a lot of bees but no hive beetles. I never would have thought that bees could fit through those holes.

Greg

drobbins
05-27-2007, 06:41 PM
the entrance grooves in mine are the kerf from a tablesaw blade which is 1/8"
I know they can got through #8 hardware cloth (and bees can't) so I figure it'll work

Dave

Tillie
05-27-2007, 08:54 PM
I think I'll mix up a little of your brew to try them out with

Dave

Dave, the brew recipe is from Sonny Chidister and Mel McConnell - they were generous with me as they are with everyone to share this trap and the lure recipe.

My traps have been on the hives since Saturday morning. I have to open two hives tomorrow (Monday) to return frames for the bees to clean - I'll check to see if bees have died - if so I'll regroup and use smaller holes. I've been very worried about the bees dying in the traps - we are in the middle of a drought in Atlanta (11 inch deficit) and I had to take down my hummingbird feeders because they were filled with dead bees (and those are small holes).

Linda T in Atlanta

Curtis
05-30-2007, 03:00 PM
So Linda how long are you going to keep us in suspense?

Thanks for the post if it works I think I will try it too. I just say my first SHB Monday.

Curtis

Tillie
05-30-2007, 07:34 PM
Sorry about the suspense - I've had other bee problems for a different post.

I checked on Monday morning and the only thing in any of the three traps was a bee in the hive where I've seen the most SHBs. She was alive so I opened the top and freed her. But at that point the traps had only been on the hive about 36 hours. At the advice of some of the Beemaster folks, I moved the trap above the inner cover in two hives and left it where it is in the other (under the inner cover on top of the frames).

I looked at the pictures of Sonny and Mel's lure and wondered if mine were potent enough. Theirs has substance and looks thick like grated ginger. Mine is a liquid with pieces of banana skin in it. I did follow the recipe, but don't know if I should have done something different than it actually said.

At my parents' house if you follow my mother's recipes, it's much different than she actually does it....we call that "mothering" a recipe in my family. I have wondered if there were some way I should have "mothered" the lure recipe - like cook it and then let it ferment???? Theirs has so much less liquid in the finished product than mine.

I'll email them and see if they have thoughts after I open one of the hives tomorrow. I have to get a frame of honey for a nuc, so I'll check at least one hive in the morning.

Linda T confused in Atlanta

Ross
05-31-2007, 08:08 AM
How about DE on the insert under the SBB? That still seems to be the easiest solution.

Gene Weitzel
05-31-2007, 10:08 AM
How about DE on the insert under the SBB? That still seems to be the easiest solution.
Ross,

You are right about that. Thats all I use and its killed alot of shb's. Its easy to peek at the insert and get a "drop count" kind of like with mites by putting in fresh DE and checking again in 24 hrs. If you check daily for a few days you can see if the shb population is dropping by the daily increase in drops (I don't add fresh DE daily, I just keep a mental count so I can see if it continues to increase). I usually leave it in for a few days until I don't see much for new shb's showing up then I remove it for a few days to let the hive get a little more ventilation. Works pretty good for me. But my experience has also been that unless your hive is strong and in a good sunny spot, no matter what you use they can still get out of hand.

I like to use the Safer brand DE because it has an attractant in it and it seems to bring them into the DE a little better. I have found however that if you don't keep the open bag in an air tight container the attractant seems to lose some of its effectiveness.

Aspera
05-31-2007, 12:03 PM
How about DE on the insert under the SBB? That still seems to be the easiest solution.

I haven't seen many SHB. What is DE?

Curtis
05-31-2007, 12:39 PM
Diatomaceous Earth
Curtis

Gene Weitzel
05-31-2007, 12:49 PM
I haven't seen many SHB. What is DE?
Diatomaceous Earth, If you use it be sure to get the insecticide grade and NOT the grade used in swimming pool filters. Also care should be taken to keep from breathing the dust particles.

SL Tx
05-31-2007, 08:56 PM
I've had SHB trouble in the past and followed the lure/trap thread here with interest. I made two traps from a dollar store fishing lure box (with holes made with a soldering iron). I baited them with the lure credited to Sonny Chidister and Mel McConnell. I put diatomaceous earth in one trap and Walmart mineral oil in the other. In a week I had one SHB in the MO and three in the DE.

Today while watching the comings and goings and admiring the many shades of pollen, I observed a SHB land and walk nonchalantly right into the hive like he lived there! This time I put DE in the plastic tray under my screened bottom board with the Chidester-McConnell lure in jelly jar lid. It was 6:00 pm and when I checked it at 8:30 pm I had already trapped six of the little ba****ds. The lure definitely works!!

Tillie
05-31-2007, 09:57 PM
I think the reason that I haven't trapped any SHBs yet is that I don't have a noticeable infestation this year. If I were seeing SHBs in the hive and not in the trap, I would worry, but I've only seen a few this year and none since I put the traps on.

Last year in these same hives I saw as many as 30 under the inner cover every time I opened the hive. So part of my enthusiasm for this trap was as a preventive measure. Maybe just the right nematodes have magically appeared in the ground 14 feet below my deck and are descimating the SHB population before they get to my hive!

Also we have had no rain in Georgia for practically the entire month of May - we are 11 inches low for the year in rainfall - and maybe that is having an effect on the SHB population.

BTW, the Sonny-Mel trap is featured in Bee Culture this month in a short article (p. 39) with a picture and description of how to do it.

I'll let everyone know when my trap works.

Linda T in Atlanta

SL Tx
06-01-2007, 12:02 PM
In my last post I reported six victims in only a couple of hours when I used DE on the SBB tray with a jar lid half full of the lure (almost instant gratificaion). No more beetles were trapped overnight so I removed the tray this morning with the idea that I'll put it under a hive for a couple of days every few weeks (I don't want the pests getting used to the lure). I'm gonna move my trap around my other hives (I only have three with SBB's) with the same strategy...in place a couple of days then move to another hive. I'll report results....

SL Tx
06-01-2007, 12:23 PM
I should include a comment that using the Sonny-Mel secret sauce with Safer diatomaceous earth on the tray under a screened bottom board is definitely an easy way to kill SHB's. I can't comment too much on overall effectiveness beyond "any dead SHB is a good SHB" . However I do know that I had not seen all that many of them running around during inspections (two or three at most) so I consider six dead ones in a couple of hours to be a great result.

Also, I've used a tray of DE without the lure and occasionally killed a SHB without ever seeing a dead bee. I quit doing it because it was somehow getting wet when it rained....

Gene Weitzel
06-01-2007, 03:07 PM
I should include a comment that using the Sonny-Mel secret sauce with Safer diatomaceous earth on the tray under a screened bottom board is definitely an easy way to kill SHB's. I can't comment too much on overall effectiveness beyond "any dead SHB is a good SHB" . However I do know that I had not seen all that many of them running around during inspections (two or three at most) so I consider six dead ones in a couple of hours to be a great result.

Also, I've used a tray of DE without the lure and occasionally killed a SHB without ever seeing a dead bee. I quit doing it because it was somehow getting wet when it rained....
I have been seeing about 2 -3 new beetles per day in the DE for the last couple of days. This is nothing like last year where I counted 40-50 in the first 24 hrs after putting the DE in the SBB insert. I only see a couple of beetles inside when I inspect as well, so at least up to now there seems to be a much lighter infestation than last year.

One of the downsides to the DE is that it does get damp. Especially in a humid environment. In my area I must refresh it at least once per week. It is most effective when it is dry and fluffy (I always shake the bag good before I use it to "fluff it up" a bit).

aidah
06-08-2007, 08:07 PM
Gene, Hi I have a ton of SHB in my hive. This is my first hive. The beetles came with my package 5 days ago. Ive read all the notes on this thread. I made Sonnies trap and the sauce with bananas and vinegar. I have not installed it yet. Where do you put the DE? inside the trap?Please explain this to me. Aidah

bbbbeeman
06-08-2007, 08:27 PM
I dont see why every one is not useing the closed screen bottom board, with veg oil in the tray. it kill every thing shb, mites, larvey of wax moth and shb. I made this board about 1989 and dont use any chims in my hives and lose very few hives. good luck ROCK.

aidah
06-10-2007, 01:19 PM
I went out to day and got a trap that holds veg oil and installed it this a.m. Seems to me you are right about "it kills everything.I also got my Hoover vac. out and sucked about 250 of them out of there with a modified nozzle, Then I burned the bag. If i loose the hive at least we cant say I didn't try.

cdanderson
06-10-2007, 03:29 PM
Would there be any merit to putting this trap with lure and DE on the ground under the hive - or does it have to be inside the hive to work. I'm a newbie and I dont want to disturb my bees too much. ?

aidah
06-11-2007, 07:53 PM
Try it and see. I think lots of new things are happening in the bee world and its hit or miss with all the new problems the the bees have these days. What I have learned so far is if you live in the south you will always have a potential problem, the thing is balance. To many beetles and the hive dies. A small amount of beetles and the hive can deal with them, so theres balance. Hive beetles also like to hide in dark places and they like to hide in the corner of the hive. Thats where the beetle trap works well inside the hive, they try to hide inside it and drowned in the oil. The next time you open the hive try to scatter them and watch then run right into the oil pan or you can vacuum them out like I did, it works.

Tillie
06-11-2007, 08:00 PM
This is an amazing year....last year I was so frustrated by the SHB - seeing scads of them when I opened a hive in the dark corners, as you say, aidah. This year I decided to be a good Girl Scout and follow the "Be Prepared" rule, so I got ready for the onslaught by building the Sonny/Mel trap.

Meanwhile we are having the worst drought in 50 years in the state of Georgia and I have NO small hive beetles. It isn't that the trap isn't working, it's that I don't have the problem this year - NOT AT ALL!

The only hive where I do see SHBs is a nuc I started from a tiny swarm that invited itself to live on my deck. And I've only seen 2 in it and none today when I inspected it.

So boy, am I prepared, but at the same time, I think the SHB problem at least in my beeyard has succumbed to the drought.

Linda T in Atlanta

Tillie
06-14-2007, 06:21 AM
At the Metro Atlanta Bee meeting last night, Cindy Bee who was giving a program on honeybee removal said as an aside (what problems poorly removed honeybee issues could create) that SHBs will be a huge problem in July and August here in Georgia, so maybe my traps will have something to work with at that time!

Linda T in Atlanta

BjornBee
06-14-2007, 06:43 AM
Tillie,
I think your right about the lack of shb this year. Seems the numbers are low and some report that hives with shb in the past have very few if any inside the hives now.

Every beek should be checking stored equipment, dead out hives sitting around, etc. Now (In Pa. anyways) is the time you can find thousands of larvae inside a hive ready to create problems later in the year.

aidah
06-14-2007, 07:58 PM
I think all the hive beetles are here in my yard in fl. this year. I have hundreds of them.I will check my bees tomorrow wish me luck.

nsmith1957
06-15-2007, 07:34 AM
I think all the hive beetles are here in my yard in fl. this year. I have hundreds of them.I will check my bees tomorrow wish me luck.No, you don't have them all. I opened one hive last week and it looked like a bunch of little black BB's running around in there.

As per a thread a few months ago, Michael Bush was right, they will hide, in mass, in the space frame rests make between the top bar and box dado. I will build no more boxes with frame rests.

aidah
06-15-2007, 09:52 PM
I opened my hive today to peek and life is good. The girls are doing great! My hive beetles are down to a manageable Number. I had hundreds of them. Now there are only a few. Maybe the hive will make it after all. I have lost sleep thinking about these #*^ beetles. Good night

longrangedog
06-25-2007, 06:24 PM
I am concerned with my beetle problem and bought gardstar and some drone frames. I also use screened bottom boards on each of my 6 hives. After reading the gardstar label I have questions: Do the SHB larve go through the screen and enter the ground directly under the hive as opposed to in front of hives with solid bottoms? Will fumes from an application of gardstar enter the hive through the screened bottom and kill bees? The gardstar product appears to be a very potent chemical and I'd like some advice before proceeding

Troy
06-27-2007, 02:30 PM
I followed the directions and sprinkled it aorund the hives, last summer. I did it one night just after sunset.

I had open SBB on some of the hives and I noticed no ill effects on the bees.

I also did several other things to get rid of them too, so I can't say whether the Gardstar was instrumental or not.

pom51
09-19-2008, 09:25 PM
can someone give me the receipe for mel and sunny treatment for small hive beetle i donot want to use any chemicals on my bees
thank
pom51

sc-bee
09-19-2008, 10:52 PM
>can someone give me the receipe for mel and sunny treatment for small hive beetle


http://www.beeworks.com/informationcentre/small_hive_beetle.html

Tillie
09-20-2008, 06:55 AM
http://beekeeperlinda.blogspot.com/2007/04/full-on-attack-against-small-hive.html

Linda T in Atlanta