Favorite yeasts

[Aspera]

I'm sure its all been discussed before, but what is everyone's favorite mead yeast? I haven't tried Vierka or white labs yet, but have had good results with Lalvin D-47, Red star montrachet, Lalvin 1118, Wyeast sweet mead and a few beer strains. Does anyone mix yeast stains or do wild fermentations?

[Ben Brewcat]

I have mixed strains, but usually only to get a gravity adjustment. I love White Labs personally, but they had a wonderful rep and were very service-oriented when I worked in retail. No wild ferments on mead yet; I just can't stand to sacrifice that much honey and wait all that time to potentially make drain cleaner ;) .

[Aspera]

Any favorites from white labs? It looks like they make a whole bunch of potentially nice strains. Do you boil or sulfite prior to pitching yeast? I've noticed that sufite tolerant strains seem to make a better mead for me (and I usually boil!)

[Anthony]

Of the yeast tried so far, I like the results from Red Start's Champagne & Lalvin's 71B.

I did a wild fermentation, the bug that took hold made a lovely sweet/acidic vinegar with a strong honey finish from the must, I didn't know vinegar could be made without alcohol. I'm using one of the "Mothers" from that gallon batch to make a Tupelo vinegar.

[Ben Brewcat]

I was given a vial of the Avize, a champagne isolate I was told, that I liked. Very quick, clean ferment and yummy. Also the ESB is the only strain I really like for my house Mild, I believe it's the Fuller's strain, very fruity and soft. Could be a fun braggot experimental strain. I usually just dissolve honey in water and pitch an active, highly aerated starter and count on the good guys in fighting trim to out-compete the bad guys.

Vinegar does need alcohol (and oxygen)... two speculations on that one. Perhaps you had a souring agent that wasn't acetobacter but soured it up with something besides acetic acid ( lactobacillus comes to mind; one of the many culprits behind the wonderful sour Belgian ales) , or a concurrent multistrain progression ( saccharomyces making alcohol which acetobacter then gobbles up). If the honey finish was sweet, the latter would be my guess. The pH eventually dropped enough to halt the sugar fermentation (yeast are sissies compared to the acetobacter) , which starved the vinegar factory of alcohol and might have made a vinegar with some residual sweetness?

If only I could get paid to sit around and idly speculate... cable news channels here I come!

[Ben Brewcat]

Boy, I should definitely add a note of caution here (aren't I a worrywort!). Wild yeasts can be the devil's own trouble to get out of your equipment once established... folks who use cultured bugs for specific, often historical, beverages usually have a seperate set of siphoning tubes, airlocks, stoppers, etc. One of the good online groups for these beers actually calls itself the biohazard page; the reputation for those buggers is so bad. Glass should be OK, and stainless can be baked in the oven, but the other stuff is questionable. The first thing I'd ask someone with persistent infection problems at the shop was "how old is your plastic?". Replacement usually solved it.

That said, I routinely make and bottle Kombucha with my regular doodads and haven't had any trouble so far. I do soak everything in Star San overnight immediately after hot water rinsing which is immediately after use, and I do replace my plastic yearly.

<Thump> getting off soapbox ;)

[Anthony]

Thanks for the tip on replacing plastic. Been using BTF Iodophor to sanitize, normaly let stuff soak longer then the 1 minute contact tiem needed to be on the safe side.

I found a couple of sites, one of them being vinegar international, where they talk about being able to make vinegar from sugar or starch without first converting it to alcohol. But they don't say which of the bugs do this. Only that it's easier to convert to alcohol first.

Anthony

[ScottS]

I use 71B and D47 mainly, as I mostly make melomels. I've recently learned to appreciate RC212 as well, and I'll be playing with that more in the future. I use White Labs for all of my beer.

I did a cider test, where I took 15 gallons of identical raw cider, broke it up into 3 5 gallon carboys, fermented one with White Labs cider yeast, one with Wyeast cider yeast, and let one ferment naturally. The natural one was the best. smile.gif

Another kombucha maker, eh? We're working on getting our mushroom big enough that I can make 5 gallons at a time and keg it.

I'm looking to get into vinegar making, but I don't want to contaminate the brewing area. I'll probably end up doing it in a friend's basement.

[Ben Brewcat]

That's interesting about the vinegar; I'll have to check that site out! Thanks for passing it on. I've always wanted to get into vinegar making but haven't crossed the threshold.

I have to admit to loving kombucha. I take the scoby from a 5-gallon batch (cut into 3 peices) and store it in the fridge in a half-gallon mason jar full of kombucha for pitching the next one; that ratio seems to give 5 gals enough acidity to start off well. I ferment in a 6.5-galon bucket with the screw-off pouring cap removed, and tripled muslin rubberbanded over it. I also aerate with a SS stone for an hour after inoculation for another kick-start, but I go through the stuff like it's going out of style. As I understand it, you could pitch a single serving's worth of scoby (the little clear guy in each bottle) and it would eventually build up to whatever volume; you could add a little lactic acid or equivalent to inhibit non-preferred organisms until the scoby gets cooking.

Iodophor is a good sanitizer; it usually comes in a foaming formulation which can help penetrate scratches, and doesn't need rinsing at the lower concentration (was it 12.5 ppm?). I gave it up for the staining, and it doesn't store quite as long as I like. For my next geek confession, I keep a spray bottle of star-san for misting hands, countertops, dropped stoppers, topping up airlocks, sanitizing pet bowls, and for the kitchen (SWMBO never meets my standards after thawing or handling meat; I sanitize the sink and handles all the time!). Take a kid with a public health nurse for a mom, a surgeon for a dad, have him work in health care for 15 years or so, and train him as a brewer if you want a compulsive hand-washer and sanitizer of kitchens smile.gif !

[Anthony]

I've thought about switching sanitizers, but this works well. I make a 40 - 50 ppm solution and rinse equipment with scalding water after a 5+ minute soak, use the same solution to wipe down counter tops and the sinks.

I make vinegar in the same kitchen must & wort, never working with vinegar before working with mead on the same day. Other then when I bottle the vinegar or make additions of wine or juice, the crock sits covered with a towel on top of the pantry, don't even smell it.

I use vinegar quite a bit in salads, beans, for soaking meat, in fruit salad, soups and stews. I don't figure having vinegar in the same room one brews in is enough to cause an infection.

As to the must that fermented to vinegar, where I live (City of Los Angeles) it's doubtful there are many wild yeast.

Anthony

[Aspera]

As far as braggots go, the Safale 56, Wyeast bavarian (3806??) and the Wyeast Ardenne are all nice. The bavarian develops some wonderful smooth malt-like aromas and the Ardenne strain made a really classy honey Gran Cru last year. I haven't tried the Lavlin 71 strain yet but it sounds dangerously good. Wyeast sweet mead gets a bad rap for being slow, but try it in a melomel. My raspberry mead came out smelling like a fine muscat. Anyone out there using the Vierka mead yeast?

[Gregory_Naff]

"As to the must that fermented to vinegar, where I live (City of Los Angeles) it's doubtful there are many wild yeast"

??? With the air turbulence created by ocean moisture and desert air, big city traffic and agriculture that still exists in LA, standing water, abandoned structures, etc; The amount of wild yeasts, molds and nefarious bacteria’s that are in your air are astronomical.
You mention that you are using BTF Iodaphor and rinse with scalding water. While this is good for sanitization, this doesn’t clean. Make sure you clean with an aggressive caustic prior to sanitization. I like “red devil” brand lye. Easily available at the grocery store. This caustic will remove most buildup that can break loose and infect your next product.
One of my roles in our homebrew-club is to teach cleaning and sanitization (I grew up with a microbiologist for a mother; I understand what you mean Ben). I have tried the strong sanitizer with the scalding rinse and I have found residual bacteria. The scalding water really removes the BTF and leaves a surface that is ripe for re-infestation and can break loose buildup that was sanitized on the outside, but not penetraded. By cleaning with a strong caustic and then sanitizing, you can mix at a 13-15ppm and you don’t have to rinse. It takes a little longer to guarantee sanitation (10-15 min), but you have a surface that does not allow bacteria to regenerate. Also, we have had a problem with BTF iodaphor in the Phoenix area. Our water is very base. BTF does not have enough acid content to neutralize the water. Iodine or Betadine works best in a neutral to acidic environment (ph 5 or less). Check the ph of your cleaning water just as you would your must / wurt/ etc.

[Aspera]

Although perhaps not environmentally friendly, household bleach is a powerful oxidizer and cleaning agent when used at a high concentration (1/2 cup chlorox per 7 gallons). If you're trying to do right by the local waterways, then lye, sodium hydroxide, or percarbonates (Oxywash) will do the job. Phospate based cleaners are used commercially, but can contribute to algal blooms in streams and rivers. My favorite....I long brush I bought for $4.00 from the local homebrew shop.

[Gregory_Naff]

The down side to bleach is its ability to stick around and that a little goes a long way. You can rinse a container that has had bleach in it several times and still detect the bleach. Most people believe that if a little bit works than a lot REALLY works. This can lead to slow or lagging fermentation as well as no fermentation. I too use a brush, but I use it in conjunction with the caustic. I tried the oxyclean, but I didn't like the results (no science, just personal)

As for the yeast, for dry fruity melomels I like White lab's Merlot red wine yeast.(WLP740) But then, I like dry meads with a lot of body. My wife is a sweet mead fanatic and swears by their sweet mead yeast (wlp720). We make a small mead starter (about 1060sg) and propagate it twice, with the final propagation being about 1090-1100sg.

[Aspera]

Thanks for the yeast info Greg. I guess starter cultures are probably better with the pitchable yeasts. As for the bleach, it definitely leaves a huge amount of residue with my hard PA water. That's why I try not too use much, and will "neutralize" it with a hot water/citric acid rinse.