First Braggot

[Anthony]

Thought I'd take a shot at brewing a Stout Braggot this weekend. Been reading up on brewing and what to expect form use of the different Malt, Hops and Grain. My choice of malt are aimed at creating a Braggot with a Deep Black Stout - taste, feel and aroma.

9 lb. Mesquite honey
5 lb. Munich Malt (munchener)
1 lb. Darl Crystal Malt 120
1 lb. Chocolate Malt
2 lb. Black roasted Barley (non-malted)
2 oz. Black Patent Malt
Water for 6 gal.

Wyeast 1056 or 1272 depending on the combined gravity of the Wort and Must together. both of these are capable of hit 10% A.B.V. or higher.

Would this recipe benifit from the addition of hops?

I do not want a still Braggot, at what point of the fermentation do I prime and bottle?

[Ben Brewcat]

That's a HUGE amount of dark grains... Roasted barley usually is used in smaller amounts for a bit of it's flavor and for the garnet-red color it gives to stouts. Either way three + pounds may taste extremely roasty... perhaps a typo intended to be 2 oz for the RB? I like a very roasty stout (my stouts get faulted at judging for being roastier than "style guidelines", and I'm not changing a thing!), but don't even approach that level. It's a matter of preference. If it's a recipe you like, that's the whole point of making it yourself!

Note that the Munich malt needs to be mashed to convert its starches to sugars. If you're an experienced brewer with the equipment that's not a problem and you know what I'm talking about. Otherwise let us know and we can walk you through a substitution or how to get a mash happening.

I'd leave out the hops personally; I just don't think they taste very good in most braggots and more so in roasty ones. As for the sparkle, definitely let it ferment to completion (make sure with successive gravity readings over time) before priming and bottling. Bulk age if you can. Chico (Wyeast 1056, or White Labs American Ale) makes a good braggot, clean and neutral; 1272 (Ringwood if I recall) is fruitier and more estery which would be nice too, just a matter of preference. Chico performs well and attenuates very well given adequate aeration at pitching, that's very important when using ale yeasts in mead. I'd probably prefer the 1056 personally, just 'cuz this braggott'll have a lot going on already flavorwise.

And lastly, might consider a less assertive honey than mesquite (no experience personally, though I've heard it can be strongly-flavored)).

[nursebee]

I agree on the overkill on dark grains comments but have no experience on braggots good or bad. Not much honey character will come through with a stout so do not spend much if you buy the honey, get the regular grade stuff.

[ScottS]

I've only made one braggot, but it was the best mead I've ever made. So I feel sort of qualified to comment. smile.gif

Between the chocolate malt and black patent, I guarantee that your braggot will end up tasting like burnt well-used tire. If you like that taste, go for it. I personally would say 1/2 lb of either or a combination of both is plenty. But then I don't like stouts all that much. Ben, how much do you use in your over-the-top stouts?

I think with that much honey, malt, and an ale yeast, you are probably going end up with something at least a little sweet. If that is your intent, fine. I really liked the way mine turned out with D47. Not quite dry, and malty. Yum.

I added a bit of hops to mine, just enough to blend into the flavor profile. Very nice addition, I would recommend it.

I disagree about using boring honey. If you do it right, you are going to end up with a very interesting and complex beverage. Good honey can most definitely contribute to this. Remember, you are making a braggot not a honey beer. I think with a honey beer your honey gets much more washed out, in a braggot it should stand up and be tasted right along with the rest of your ingredients.

[Anthony]

Good morning,

I have yet to brewed a beer, know nothing about mashing.

Other then the basic fermentation equipment, I have a 10 gal. Polarware brew pot with spigot, thermometer and faulse bottom.

As far as this recipe goes, I made it up. Been reading about what goes into a Stout and what %'s of which grains and malts can be used, and went from there.

Input from this and another forum both advise reducing the amout of barley.

Stout Braggot (version 1.02)

9 lb. Mesquite, Buckwheat, Avocado or other honey of strong flavor and aroma.
7 lb. Munich Malt (munchener)
1 lb. Dark Crystal Malt 120
1/2 lb. Chocolate Malt
1/2 lb. Roasted Barley (non-malted)
2 oz. Black Patent Malt
Water for 6 gal.

Anthony

[Anthony]

I'm after a sparkling mead.

It's my understanding, the yeast need to be alive to convert the priming sugar into alcohol and CO2 for the mead to carbonate.

Depending on what the gravity is I may end up using a wine yeast, more then likely K1-V1118 or EC-1118.

I think with that much honey, malt, and an ale yeast, you are probably going end up with something at least a little sweet. If that is your intent, fine. I really liked the way mine turned out with D47. Not quite dry, and malty. Yum.

[ScottS]

I think roasted barley and black patent are nearly one and the same. I'd use one or the other, and 1/2 lb max.

Both of those yeasts you mention are champagne yeasts. You are guaranteed to ferment to dryness if you want either of those. If you want it sparkling, you'll need something that will ferment dry, so those are appropriate choices.

[Anthony]

Black patent malt or black malt is very dark malted barley. It essentially gets its black color from very high roasting temperatures. Black malt can be used to give the beer a dark color, but will also impart a slight burnt or smokey flavor.

Chocolate malt is similar to black patent malt, except it just hasn’t been roasted as long. It is dark in color, but doesn’t have the burnt flavor of black malt. It will give a nice deep nut-like flavor.

Roasted (un-malted) barley is basically just that. barley is roasted in an oven at a fairly high temperature until it turns to the desired color. This specialty grain will not contribute to any of the final alcohol content of the beer, and is used primarily for flavoring. It will add a slight nutty flavor to the beer.

Anthony

[Anthony]

I'm after a deep nutty flavor, a little scorched around the edges but nothing as burnt as say french roast coffee.

I'd also like to make it so dark light goes around it. Hold it up to the light and the room gets dark, know what I mean?

I'm going to blend Avocado and Buckwheat honey to get a dark, musty, earthy flavor thats nearly as dark as I want the Braggot to finish.

Anthony

[Anthony]

Ben,

This is my first shot at brewing.

I'm open to advice, about which malt and how much of it would best end in the desired result for this braggot.

Thank's,

Anthony

[Ben Brewcat]

Anthony: the beer part is up to you; mashing can be pretty involved. Alternately you can use a number of quality dry or liquid malt extracts... You'll hit your target gravity spot on, it's a dissolve-in-water proposition. The character grains (Xtal, roast grains) can all be steeped to extract their flavors. You're correct about the grains, though I might offer that the chocolate malt's flavors tend more towards the espresso than the nutty which could come from a malt like victory or toasted malt.

That's a pretty serious kettle/mash tun you have! You certianly could get into mashing with it (it's kinda overkill for this sized batch), though I rarely recommend all-grain brewing for the beginner. It's doable, but it's kinda like going straight to neurosurgery from CPR/First aid training or raising breeder queens your first year: sometimes a couple intermediate brews can help you understand the process a little better. If you want, it's easy to sum up what you'll do in a few sentences, but let us know if you'd rather consider the malt extracts.

Recipe suggestions based on your statements: consider Belgian Special-B instead of (or alongside) the C-120. It's a very dark specialty crystal malt that gives the Belgian Dubbel its unique mysterious, almost raisiny complexity and a good bit of darkness too. Any malts, but especially the caramel/crystal malts, you can just chew a couple kernels to see what they taste like. A HBS with good selection in bulk bins should let you graze and munch to your heart's content. You could up the black malt to four ounces in six gallons to ensure dark color without getting too much char. I personally love the character of chocolate malt, and occasionally formulate stouts without any black at all.

For the nutty, you could use a toastd malt or, for the adventurous, toast your own (yum!).

Speaking of stouts, here's my Strangelove Stout, the aforementioned very dry Irish stout. It is dry, very drinkable at 4.5% abv (three or four Imperial pints easy while you talk politics, sports, or beekeeping smile.gif ) , and I've had several Dubliners prefer it to Guinness (honestly!). In a very narrow glass, in strong light, it's a deep garnet red like a good stout should be. In a pint glass, the ace of spades would disappear. The flaked barley lets you drop a dime on the head. This is the one that the BJCP style guidelines say is too roasty for the "Classic dry Irish Stout category". This is an all-grain recipe, but I'd be glad to share actual (non-scaleable) amounts for other brewing styles if there's interest:

Grist:
77% 2-row malt
10% U.S. roast barley
5% U.S. chocolate malt
5% flaked barley
3% U.S. black malt

42 IBUs Northern Brewer whole hops
CaCl, MGSO4 and (mainly) CaCO3 added to harden my very soft water to match Dublin's. Yes, I'm a geek.

Chico ale yeast (White labs American Ale, the Sierra Nevada strain; wonderful yeast for this style).

At my usual fly-sparge brewing efficiency (about 81%) that works out to about 3.7 pounds of roast grains for an 11-gallon batch, a lot more if I batch-sparge. Now the minerals and hops do dry this out some too, but it's the roastiness that the style nazis get atwitter about. 10 gallons lasts us a week or so... somehow we get very popular when this one's on tap!

Sorry for the long post. Your braggot is sounding very promising! Consider making in on Mead day (see other post)!

[Anthony]

Thank Ben.

Stout Braggot, last revision

9 lb. Honey, Buckwheat - Avocado blend.
5 lb. Munich Malt, munchener
1 lb. Dark Crystal Malt 120
1 lb. Chocolate Malt
8 oz. Roasted Barley, non-malted
7 oz. Flaked barley
4 oz. Black Patent Malt
1 oz Chinook leaf hops (bittering)
1 ¼ teaspoon Irish Moss
¼ Cup corn sugar, for priming
K1-V1116 yeast, in a 500 ml starter
Water for 6 gal.

Started making everything from scratch about 15 years ago, nothing I cook comes out of cans. I can't see changing this to make braggot.

The 40 quart pot allows for large batchs of must, and for draining it from the pot through a counter flow chiller and into carboys. I'd have gone with the 60 quart pot if I had the room on the stove.

Thanks again,

Anthony

[Anthony]

Hey Ben,

I've just start reading http://www.howtobrew.com I'll work through all the information but now I'd like to focus on the methods. For this brew would you go with, Single Temperature Infusion or Multi-Rest Mashing.

Anthony

[Ben Brewcat]

Good book. Definitely recommend an infusion; all you're doing is getting the sugars and flavors out of the munich malt as well as converting the flaked barley's pregelatinized starches. Strike (mash-in) a little on the high side, maybe 152 to 155, to generate some unfermentable sugars and retain a little more of that Munich character, and hold for an hour. If your 40-qt pot fits in your oven, preheat the oven to that temp, and once the mash is stabilized at temp just put the covered pot (er, that is, mash tun) into the oven... no worries about holding temps! Then sparge in whatever manner you like. Do try to incorporate a recirculation step to settle the grainbed and reduce chaff in the runoff; I'm a batch-sparger myself and love it for ease, time savings and pH stability.

Note that to isomerize the hops into their bittering components you'll need to then boil the sparged wort for an hour. You could boil it and then, at knockout, add the honey to pasteurize (heat OFF, it'll stabilize somewhere in the mid-100's), and then chill. I don't know if you're a must boiler, pasteurizer or neither, but certainly don't boil the honey in the wort that whole time IMO.

Have fun! Be sure to let us know if any mashing/sparging/boiling questions come up.

[Anthony]

Thanks Ben,

As to making must, I've pasturized, boiled, cold and warm mixed. Warm mixing is the simplest and fastest, warm water to 90 - 100 F. use a ballon whisk to blend in honey. I was thinking once the wort cooled to about 100 F. I'd blend in the honey.

That 40 qt. pot will not fit in my oven, leaving with using a low flame to maintain the temp or modifying a 10 gal. rubbermaid water cooler with a faulse bottom to use as a mash tun, and my brew pot to boil the wort. Either way I will recirculate to clear the wort before boiling.

I don't want a hops smell so dry hopping is out. I do wonder about First wort hopping though, steeping the hops in the wort prior to boil. If I understand what I've read, this extr4acts some of the bittering qualities from the hops without boiling them, a little bitter is all I want, also the hop back method might work well for the taste I'm after, having never brewed a beer before I just don't know.

I've been reading a lot about the "No Sparge" brewing method, pro and con. Not in a place to make an informed choice in this matter, at some point I'll have to make 2 - 3 gal. batches the same day, with an identical grist pitch the same yeast ect. and find out for myself.

And finaly, as I've never brewed a beer, I'm thinking about mashing 1 1/2 X the grist I plan to use for braggot and make a 3 gal. batch of stout at the same time. 14 lbs of grist would need 17 1/2 - 21 qts of water for the mash, 9 gallons of wort in a 10 gallon pot may be pushing it though.

Anthony

[Ben Brewcat]

Avoid whisking until it's at least below 80 degrees; you'll oxidize the wort rather than oxygenate it.


I do wonder about First wort hopping though, steeping the hops in the wort prior to boil. If I understand what I've read, this extr4acts some of the bittering qualities from the hops without boiling them, a little bitter is all I want, also the hop back method might work well for the taste I'm after, having never brewed a beer before I just don't know. FWH provides some bittering but its proponents use it for the flavor contribution (hops do three things in beer: flavor like tea, bitterness from boiling, and aroma depending on length of boil). To keep your bitterness under control you could FWH but more reliable would be a different hop; Chinook is the "nuclear option" of bittering hops with usually 12% or more alpha acids.

To keep mash temps constant, active flame is fine but do it very conservatively and stir constantly without aerating (kind of a tall order, I know). The bottom of the kettle will get substantially warmer than the mash in general and you want very consistent temps throughout. Alternately, you could wrap the mashtun in a sleeping bag and check every 20 mins; keep a seperate kettle boiling and hit the mash with a little splash to keep it up where you need it.

Nine qts in 10 should be fine. Just watch it like a hawk the first few minutes of boiling, and start gently! Reduce heat and blow on the foam if boilover threatens... it's a mistake every brewer has to make once and believe me it's a self-correcting mistake! After the boil rolls for a few mins the initial proteinaceous materials begin to break down and it'll be much less likely to boil over. Don't put a lid on it either; you want to blow off sulfurous precursors and reduce volume anyway.

Oh, and have fun! From your other posts you're clearly an adventurous meadmaker... good on ya! As far as the no-sparge/batch-sparge/fly-sparge deal goes, I do the batch-sparge for the time savings. There's probably a difference on some level flavorwise, but in brewing (as in meadmaking) it's more about quality ingredients, attention to good technique, and love in the heart of the brewer/mazer. Lots of paths to a good brew when those criteria are met.