honey pop

[AlpineJean]

I saw a mention of "honey pop" on a web site recently. I am wondering if you know how to make it and if it's like mead but just not as long or complicated to make.

Also, guys, what does "gf" stand for when it's being used for a wife? I figured out SWMBO :)

[Ben Brewcat]

It's usually non-alcoholic, and the yeast is used to carbonate a beverage sweetened with honey. Be careful with these recipes! Most of them are recipes for bottle bombs, as they have no provision for stopping the ferment. Avoid (well, change) recipes that call for champagne yeast; use a dry ale yeast instead. Make one bottle in a plastic soda bottle. Then you know when it's carbonated... it gets rigid. Then put the whole batch in the fridge, where ale yeast goes dormant.

Let us know what you're looking at recipewise and we can suggest some safe, yummy possibilities I'm sure! Having made some serious amounts of soda over the years, I can't overemphasize the safety risk of bottle grenades which most "grand-paw"-type recipes allow :eek: .

But the main difference is that although you use yeast, it's only for carbonation. And since the tiny amount of fermentation that carbonation requires rarely uses all the O2 in solution, there's no alcohol bacause the yeast never switch to anaerobic fermentation (aerobic fermentation does not produce ETOH). Neat, huh?

[AlpineJean]

Very neat. I don't have any recipes at all and wondered where I might find some. Also, my husband brought home some regular yeast like for making bread....obviously that's the wrong kind for mead etc. So, where is a good place to get the appropriate yeasts and yeast nutrient? I see that Dadant carries it but don't know if that's really the best vendor for this sort of thing.

[Ben Brewcat]

I'm not sure where Alpine is, but check around your area's yellow pages for a homebrewing or winemaking shop. Also online are William's Brewing (http://www.williamsbrewing.com/), Beer Beer and More Beer (http://www.morebeer.com/), and lots of other good vendors. There's even one in Texas somewhere Saint Pat's Homebrew Supply (http://www.stpats.com/) , though I've heard some pretty spotty reports about their customer service (no personal experience).

As far as recipes go, I've never made straight honey soda. I've sweetened soda recipes with honey instead of sugar... I like the rainbow extracts 'cuz they're inexpensive and I like the flavor. I make five gallons out of the four gallon concentrate, because I like a less intense (and certainly less sweet) soda than the Mountain Dew generation has become habituated to. The Gnome extracts in B3 or Williams I've tried but are not as much my style. Here's (http://www.greydragon.org/library/brewing_root_beer.html) a page on homebrewing soda; they recommend Hoptech's extracts. I haven't used them personally, but they are a class outfit (they were one of our suppliers when I managed our local homebrew shop) with good service and attention to quality.

Are you looking to make mead, soda, or both?

[AlpineJean]

Both ! Do you still have a shop?

[Ben Brewcat]

Nope, I've moved on since then but still consult with a lot of the old crew that came. Had a, uh, difference with the ownership that proved insurmountable, and parted on good terms. This forum has been great too; I'm a totally new beekeeper, and I like to think I can make a little contribution in return here. Be sure to check out the Intro (http://www.bee-l.com/bulletinboard/meadintro.htm), found on the meadmaking page for a brief summary of some meadmaking tips/techniques if you're interested.

[AlpineJean]

Right, thanks I will check it out.

[wayacoyote]

Anyone doing this?

[PCM]

Brewcat;
You stired up old memories, during the war everything was rationed, but home brew was made by most everyone. In shotgun houses with no cellers the brew was stored under the beds, in the middle of the nite one or two would "uncap" by itself you would wake up real quick.

When you opened the bottles you did it very carefully, so as to not bend the cap, so they could be reused if possible.

PCM

[Barry]

Anyone doing this?

:thumbsup: did it!

http://www.beesource.com/eob/hs.htm

[Zane]

Thanks Barry, Thats a nice recipe and description. I'm gonna try it too!!!!

I've used EC Kraus(Its local) and Williams Brewing and recommended from Brewcat above both are helpful and quick shipping. You might also look in the phone book for "Homebrew Supplies" you might be surprised there may be one close. That saves you time and maybe shipping but normally they cost a little more washing the shipping cost. If you have a Homebrew shop close? see if they have a brewclub and/or brewclass' to get an idea how VERY VERY simple it is!!
One thing to note on this recipe. If you use rootbeer extract is permeates into the bucket and could give you off flavors to your next beer/mead batch so have an extra bucket for rootbeer induced recipes if possible. I've made many styles of rootbeer years ago and have my own bucket for it. I was up in the attic and smelled it 10' away after 6 yrs since my last brew!!!!

Brewcat- thanks for the info on the "gnome" brands I always wanted to try them but the cost always sent me to the others Williams had. I might try rainbow if I can find it. Also Which Brewery did you manage? I may have partook of your malted beverage's and not known it! I've been known to try a few breweries to quench the thirst! or test for freshness or help out a local business or :s

[Ben Brewcat]

It was a homebrew shop actually. I never wanted to wear the boots for a living, you just don't get to experiment enough!

[wayacoyote]

Is dry ale yeast dry "ale yeast" or "dry-ale yeast"? I found some liquid "ale yeast".

[Zane]

Some like the liquid yeast better. I like it too but the cost is what holds me back. "Dry" Dry yeast is type of yeast. Just like Dry wine it gives a "dry" finish like a Cabernet or Merlot and sweet is more like a Chardanay. for example in comparison. I'm not a big wine guy so just use this as an example.

[Ben Brewcat]

It's confusing! But dry ale yeast is ale yeast that's been dried. A beer's attenuation (degree of sugars fermented out) is determined way more by the mashing process than by the strain; most ale strains attenuate pretty similarly to each other (though there are differences). Beers have a lot of unfermented sugars (except for the Frankenbeers) so dryness isn't a term you hear in beer analysis a lot. You could use liquid but for these purposes it doesn't matter at all.

[wayacoyote]

Thanks, Ben.
So I'll try to pick up some dry "ale yeast" and give this a try.

[wayacoyote]

Ok, we've got the ingredients and the plastic bottles, now i'm ready to "brew". One of my favorite carbonated drinks is "Squirt". It is flavored with Grapefruit. I also like "The Switch" which is a brand of carbonated fruit juices... And I have a few pounds of citrus fruit that I purchased just to make some of my own.

My wife mentioned that our juicer machine makes fruit juice. We're concerned that adding water will dilute the flavor. Yes, we could use a "flavor" additive, but we're trying to avoid that.

What do you think I should do to get the fruit juice carbonated without diluting the flavor?

[mattoleriver]

What do you think I should do to get the fruit juice carbonated without diluting the flavor?

I'm sorry, but it's late and I'm getting just a little confused. Are you trying to carbonate fruit juice or are you trying to carbonate an alcoholic beverage?
If you carbonate fruit juice with yeast you WILL get alcohol. The yeast will consume the sugar in the fruit juice producing alcohol and CO2 so the resulting beverage will be quite sour---really, really sour!---and full of CO2.
It would be very simple, though not inexpensive, to use bottled CO2 to carbonate fruit juice in 2 liter soda bottles. I often carbonate water and nothing could be easier. Unfortunately I probably have $150-$200 invested in CO2 tank, regulator, hoses and fittings. Once you have the hardware the CO2 is very inexpensive.

George

[wayacoyote]

George,
Yes, I'm trying to make honey soda pop- non alcoholic. It is commonly done but done with "flavor additives." I'm hoping to make something all-natural. With Ben Brewcat's guidance, I've purchased dry ale yeast for the recipe instead of Champain yeast. It becomes inactive when refridgerated. The process is to allow enough fermintation to occur to carbonate the beverage, and then refridgerate it to stop the process before it goes alcoholic.

While this is common practice, do you think the fruit juice will mess it up and make me a wine maker instead of a pop maker? I would think that the chilling temperature would stop that. So my concern, unless I need to add more concerns, is how to flavor the beverage with natural fruit juice.

Thanks, George

[Baloo]

Ben Brewcat is right on.


You can carbonate the juices the same way, just make sure that they don't have any preservatives. If you are adding yeast for carbonation, I really don't think it would make it to the point where you are getting any alcohol. Even if you did it would be a trace amount, probably even less than non-alcoholic beer. There is a book at my work that you might want to order if you are getting into sodas:

http://www.austinhomebrew.com/product_info.php?products_id=10177

As long as you keep them cold (after they are carbonated), you shouldn't have any "hand grenades". Just make sure if you are putting these in bottles they are NOT the screw off kind.

[wayacoyote]

Ok, I made the honeypop from a MotherEarth News Recipe (because it used grape juice). In true tradition of my wife: I followed the recipe exactly, except
I substituted 48oz of reconstituted juice and added water for the 1 gallon of juice
I substituted 1/2 cup honey for the 3/4 cup sugar

The other ingredients were: 1 gallon water and 1/2 teaspoon yiest (I used Red Star Pastuer Champain)

Yeast was added at 89 F and I let it set out 24 hours per the instructions. By then it really smelled wine-ish, but the reduced juice probably watered down the flavor, with a yeasty smell ("no more than bread" said the wife. "Great, I made bread-pop" said I.)

Bottled it and left it on the counter for 3 hours for the bottles to become ridgid. We sampled some while watching a movie. Watered down flavor, not very "crisp" and my wife said it did taste like it was going to wine. Not good because we don't drink alcohol.

Any ideas?

[Bizzybee]

I've made a couple of runs so far with about the same results. It does seem to get better with a few days in the fridge as it continues to build carbon even chilled.

My next run I plan to use ale yeast that I picked up recently. I understand that after the pressure reaches a certain point in the bottles, ale yeast dies off and prevents the bottles from becoming a bomb. Wine yeast apparently tolerates the pressure and stays active.

If taste will be any different or not using ale yeast I don't know. Be finding out soon though. I didn't think the taste was so bad myself, not that I got very much of it. My son sucked most of it down before I had a chance to have much of it. Same with food around a 15 year old boy. :rolleyes:

[wayacoyote]

I have some ale yiest, so will try again following the directions more closely. One correction: I was wrong in what I wrote regarding the quantities of fluids. I DIDN't make up 2 gallons, as I wrote. I Only made one gallon. However, It WAS diluted as I stated.

We only had it in the fridge overnight. It got quite rigid, though not foamy when opened. I took it outside with my son so we could enjoy the fiz. Quite anti-climatic.

[Ben Brewcat]

My next run I plan to use ale yeast that I picked up recently. I understand that after the pressure reaches a certain point in the bottles, ale yeast dies off and prevents the bottles from becoming a bomb. Wine yeast apparently tolerates the pressure and stays active.

Ale yeast just shuts down more reliably in the fridge, and has a lower alcohol tolerance. The pressure doesn't have much if anything to do with it. To prove it make some in a glass bottle and let it go (but do it inside a cooler, taped shut, in your cellar :eek:). Been there, done that, grenades generally don't truly detonate catastrophically but it's DEFINITELY UNSAFE especially when you open it. Plastic is much preferred for that reason, though mopping the kitchen ceiling from opening one before SWMBO gets home is unfun. If you refrigerate it once the bottles become rigid, there will be a negligible (though technically present) amount of alcohol. When I was making lots of homemade soda it never had an alcoholic flavor to it, but some of the attempts at "traditional" birch sodas and the like definitely had a kind of thin bodied, medicinal, not-super-enjoyable quality to them.

[mattoleriver]

I wonder if Malto Dextrin or Cara Pils would improve mouthfeel and head retention in soda as they do in beer?

Are creating head and retaining head two completely different problems?

I hear that there are heading agents that can be used to create a nice foamy head but I haven't used one and don't know where to find one. I've only made root beer a couple times and both times the flavor was good but the lack of a creamy head was disappointing.

George

[Ben Brewcat]

I wonder if Malto Dextrin or Cara Pils would improve mouthfeel and head retention in soda as they do in beer?
George

Well not Carapils; that requires mashing or you'll get starchy root beer that spoils quickly. Maltodextrin might be worth an experiment, but sodas really don't have mush head retention (naturally anyways) in my experience. Lots of bizarre things have been added to beverages to increase head retention, most memorably cobalt sulfate's over-use in a Quebec brewery which killed 16 people. Natural head retention is pretty much a beer thing.

[papa bear]

hey. i went to the beesource recipe that barry made a link to. seemed simple, what does this statement mean,
(Important note: The spout cover must be held in place tightly against the spout's body when filling the bottles to prevent squirting all over the place.)

what is the "spout cover"? is the brew in the bucket pressurized? or is it free flow

[Barry]

That just means that if your funnel doesn't fit down inside of the bottles, you will need to hold tight against the top lip of the bottle so it doesn't leak. No big deal here. Not sure why John felt the need to add this. No, it's not under pressure.

[wayacoyote]

The Beesource recipe for honey pop makes 4 gallons or so. We don't need that much. Can I divide the recipe by 4?

[Ben Brewcat]

I'm sure.

[wayacoyote]

Ok, I just made another batch using a Mother Earth News recipe for "honey ginger ale". I used the champange yeast that I already had open. 1 gallon of water, 1 cup honey, juice of 2 lemons, grated ginger, 1/2 teaspoon champange yeast. Mix and let set 24 hours, then pour into plastic bottles and chill.

This stuff tastes like ROT. I don't get it; where's the crisp refreshing flavor of soda pop? I'll try again using the dry ale yeast, but I'm discouraged.

[Bizzybee]

I made some almost exactly like that and got the same result waya. It actually didn't taste to bad after sitting in the fridge for about a week and a half. I don't know what made me decide to keep it after that first taste :pinch: but it sure aged well. No idea what it continued doing or not doing that made the taste come around?

[AndrewSchwab]

Ooooo so little room, so many things to try
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v203/AndrewSchwab/P3110809.jpg

[wayacoyote]

should I rack when I bottle it? (Isn't racking when you siphon off the top?)

[ScadsOBees]

I used a ginger beer flavoring to make ginger honey pop, and that worked very well, I really like that. Something with using raw ingredients?

I do know that there was a lot of settling with that flavoring (versus the root beer and creme soda).

[ScadsOBees]

as far as smaller batches, on the flavoring that I purchased it said something like one cup of honey (or sugar) per 2-liter bottle.

But our 8 bottles went quickly....

[wayacoyote]

I do have some artificial flavorings. I'm still willing to try again. Next time, I'm going to keep more detailed account of each ingredient, so I'll know what to tweek. But I need to get one good enough that tweeking is all that is needed. What I have is utterly aweful. Thanks for the encouragement.