top bar dimensions

[Gregg Ogden]

Hello all,
Would like to start by thanking all the many people who contribute to this board. I have been reading the posts for over a year and haven't had to ask many questions because doing a search usually finds the answer.
I kept bees years ago before the mite problem and plan to start up again this spring with TBH's. After looking at many designs I am leaning toward building the Les Crowder TBH because of it's simplicity. I have lined up a source for small cell packages and can't wait to get started.
My question concerns the top bar width. Would a width of 1 1/2" cause undo problems? I see that most people use 1 1/4" to 1 3/8". The reason I'm asking is I would like to build this hive with no table saw work, just to see if I can build a workable hive with materials available to anyone at little cost with no special skills necessary. I have a tablesaw and woodworking experience, but want to make one that anyone could build. Any and all advise would be appreciated. Am I asking for trouble? Thanks.

All the best,
Gregg

[stangardener]

-Would a width of 1 1/2" cause undo problems?
reply,
i've read of folks using 1 1/2" through out the hive.i would expect the combs to get further and further off center in the brood but no problem in the stores.
-I see that most people use 1 1/4" to 1 3/8".
reply,
1 1/4" is in the brood nest. you mentioned les crowder, he uses 1 3/8" through out the hive.
- with no special skills necessary.
reply,
it seems that if a person is skillfull enough to make a hive and top bars they could cut or shave the bars to a workable width.

[Michael Bush]

> My question concerns the top bar width. Would a width of 1 1/2" cause undo problems?

The bees will eventually get off of the center of the bars. Otherwise they work all right.

> I see that most people use 1 1/4" to 1 3/8".

Because that's what the bees build no matter what size you make the bars.

> The reason I'm asking is I would like to build this hive with no table saw work, just to see if I can build a workable hive with materials available to anyone at little cost with no special skills necessary. I have a tablesaw and woodworking experience, but want to make one that anyone could build.

That's why I tried 1 1/2" on my first hive. It's less work to cut the bars down than to deal with the combs getting off center. I ended up doing what the bees wanted which was 1 1/4" in the brood nest and 1 1/2" in the honey areas.

> Any and all advise would be appreciated. Am I asking for trouble?

IMO, yes.

[chemistbert]

I think you'd be pushing your luck at 1.5" I spend a lot of time getting it set right to make sure they stand a chance of building straight.

[Gregg Ogden]

Hello,
I appreciate everyones replies. Looks like the consensus is I'd be asking for trouble with 1 1/2". I guess I'll rip them down to 1 1/4". How many bars usually comprise the brood nest. Behind that I guess 1 1/2 would work. Thanks again.

All the best,
Gregg

[Wojtek]

What I am practicing is having both, 1 ½" and 1 1/4". and a few spare one. It is not a big deal to cut a few more bars than necessary as a full set. Main reason for this is, that sometimes it is necessary to replace a bar in brood area or add one or two and replaced bar should be the same size as the removed bar.
Besides, I have plenty of ¼ slats to use between bars and a few handy on the floor of unoccupied part of hive. It is practical when using these slats to mark the bar to which a slat belongs. This is important when removing such bar with plaster. (bees will glue it on both sides.)
Also it is good in my practice to have wide piece of plywood of thickness of bars to cover distal area of hive. Bees before they start to build a comb first are sealing and smoothing everything between bars and doing it consecutively toward the end of hive far in advance. To save them work on bars to which they never reach with combs I am leaving them several bars to seal and build combs and the rest is covered with this several inches wide "bar" or "bars". Having window I know when they need more bars. and to move farter devider. This simplifies me opening a hive and save some work for bees to seal bars one after another. Probably they appreciate it also and that why treat me friendly.:)

http://homepage.interaccess.com/~netpol/POLISH/Ule/Wojtekshives2.html

[Michael Bush]

They get a little off no matter what. Having a couple of sizes lets you adjust as they get off. I use the 1 1/4" until they start making fatter comb for honey storage, then I put in 1 1/2" ones. I make half and half with a few extras. You'll need the extras anyway for harvesting and splits etc. Also make a few spacers that are just 1/4" or 1/2" wide to put in between the skinner bars when the bees decide to make a really fat comb.

[Ellen]

Gregg, would you mind sharing your source for small cell bees? I'm trying to buy packaged bees from someone who ships.
Ellen

[Ellen]

What material do you make your top bars from? Dimensional lumber? Pine? Hardwood?
Thanks,
Ellen

[Michael Bush]

I made mine out of one bys.

[JensLarsen]

We use other dimensions here, some still refer to a 95x45 mm as a "four-by-two".

I planed the 70x22 mm down to 70x18 mm and then sawed them (70-6)/2 = 32 mm. Along with that I made a bunch of 6 mm spacers. The groove for wax or popsicles is about 4 mm deep. Grandpa and I made 100 top bars in two hours including cleaning up. The wood was medium grade pine.

This means I only have one size of top-bars (32 mm) and spacers to make them 32+6 = 38 mm.

Next time I'll try to do something more fancy like those on the backyard-topbar-beekeeper site. Someone posted some description on his blog as well.