Question for Michael B

[drobbins]

Michael,

I really like your ideas about "long hives"
I'm gonna build 2 that take medium frames
in looking at this picture

http://www.bushfarms.com/images/LongHiveSupered.JPG

I have a couple of questions

1) on the right of the picture, describe what I'm seeing. it looks like the hive with either frames or topbars in it, covered by 1x8's or 1x10's. is that correct, is that all you cover it with? I'm wondering about rain leaking in

2) on the left where you have supers, how do you provide vertical movement?

My idea was to make the boxes 48" long to utilize 8' lumber. then cut down ~20 medium frames to 1-1/4" to use in the brood area. then use some regular frames to fill out the box. that way towards the back of the hive the bee's would have a "normal" vertical path into the supers.
My concern is how to make a top cover for it since during unsupered times the top needs to cover the whole box but when it's supered it only covers 2/3.
Of course using "standard" frames means you have gaps between the topbars so you gotta have some kind of decent cover.
I was thinking put the frames in the box then cover with a piece of canvas to close the gaps then some form of cover
I guess during nice weather a little rain isn't that big a deal but in winter I would think you'd want it watertight.
Maybe make a nice cover for winter and just kinda "wing it" in the summer?

Thought's, Ideas, Cunning Insights??
Thanks
Dave

ps: since I got your attention, one more question
when you use regular frames, planed down to 1-1/4" in a regular lang hive, does the gap between the frames (which is smaller) provide adequate vertical movement for the bee's, or do you open that gap up to compensate for the closer frame spacing? (no big deal, just more work)

[Dannny]

LOL we should talk to the forum admins about making a "Questions for Michael Bush" forum under General Beekeeping, lol I couldnt be the only one who crossed there fingers a few times hoping to get a reply from Mr Bush.

[drobbins]

He's da man smile.gif

[Michael Bush]

>1) on the right of the picture, describe what I'm seeing. it looks like the hive with either frames or topbars in it, covered by 1x8's or 1x10's. is that correct, is that all you cover it with? I'm wondering about rain leaking in

They are actually migratory tops from various sized nucs. They could have easily been just one standard migratory cover but I put a short one with the entrance at the other end. I could have also put the entrance at the top of the stack of supers and then it would have just been two standard migratory covers. The gaps between the lids are irelevant on a long hive with frames because the bees glue the gaps shut in no time at all or they use them for another entrance if they have too big of a gap. The rain has never been a problem. With top bars the bees glue between all the bars between and on the ends so the rain still doesn't seem to be problem.

>2) on the left where you have supers, how do you provide vertical movement?

When these are on a hive with frames it's the same as any hive. When they are on a top bar hive then the gap at the front lets them get between the bottom and the top. When it's top bars I almost always put the entrance at the top of the supers so they bees have to go through the supers to get to the brood nest in the hive below.

>My idea was to make the boxes 48" long to utilize 8' lumber.

Mine are 48 3/4" to make them exactly three boxes wide, and take three standard migratory covers, but if you don't care about using on hand standard equipment it really doesn't matter. The sides are 47 1/4" long with the ends screwed onto that to make the 48 3/4" so eight foot lumber still works fine.

> then cut down ~20 medium frames to 1-1/4" to use in the brood area.

That works.

>then use some regular frames to fill out the box.

That works. I'd space them out about 1 1/2" and if they are drawn you could space them out a bit more.

>that way towards the back of the hive the bee's would have a "normal" vertical path into the supers.

You could. But forcing them through the supers at the front makes them pay attention to the supers. I try NOT to put the supers over the brood nest anyway, to save lifting, but I tend to move the brood nest to the back instead of the front. It's just easier for me to work them that way. The bees don't seem to care one way or the other.

>My concern is how to make a top cover for it since during unsupered times the top needs to cover the whole box but when it's supered it only covers 2/3.

Which is why I use regulary migratory covers. I have a variety of sizes, but you could easily just use three standard ones.

>Of course using "standard" frames means you have gaps between the topbars so you gotta have some kind of decent cover.

It doesn't have to be as decent as you think. the bees will glue it all up waterproof for you.

>I was thinking put the frames in the box then cover with a piece of canvas to close the gaps then some form of cover

My guess is it's more waterproof with three inner covers with the seams glued than one sheet of canvas that will probably prevent them from gluing the seams on the lid shut.

>I guess during nice weather a little rain isn't that big a deal but in winter I would think you'd want it watertight.

Last winter I put a 48" by 20" piece of styrofoam on top. But the winter before I didn't and they did fine. Like I say, it will be glued up waterproof when the bees are done. Be SURE to remove the supers before winter. Otherwise the bees may move up into the super and get stuck with plenty of stores at the other end.

>Maybe make a nice cover for winter and just kinda "wing it" in the summer?

That works. A piece of styrofoam works well for a winter cover.

>one more question
when you use regular frames, planed down to 1-1/4" in a regular lang hive, does the gap between the frames (which is smaller) provide adequate vertical movement for the bee's, or do you open that gap up to compensate for the closer frame spacing? (no big deal, just more work)

I'm not sure what you mean. Do you mean cutting down the width of the top bars? I think it's a nice idea. I have never done it. It's true they will propolize some between the top bars, because they are slightly smaller than 1/4" but they also seem to leave some paths too since it's still 3/16" and they have both the ability and a reason to get through (if there are supers). It's probably a good idea to cut the top bars down. I just haven't taken the time to do it.

[drobbins]

ahh, I see now
understand, as a beginner I don't have any equipment laying around and I've never even seen a migratory cover. now I see in the picture that behind the hive you were photographing is another box turned so I can see the end view of the cover. I still don't quite understand why the migratory cover is like that (only 2 side lips) but using 3 of them solves the issue of the length needing to vary

Thanx
Dave

[Jon McFadden]

Dave,
Migratory covers were designed so the hives can be pushed together with no room in between. This way the load can be strapped down on a truck for transporting.