Comb Management

[topbarguy]

Greetings,

Last year I started a little test concerning comb management. My bees would construct straight comb towards the front of the hive in the broodnest area. But they weren't so neat about it in the honey storage area toward the rear of the hive. So I have tried two methods to get more straight comb.

With the first method, I would take a few empty top bars and inserted one of them between two broodnest combs. The bees centered the comb, but when a good flow was on, they build as much brace comb as they did normal comb. I ended up cutting most of the comb out to correct it.

With the second method, I shift the entire broodnest toward the rear of the hive about 4 to 6 top bars. Then I rotate empty top bars from the rear of the hive toward the front of the hive.

I like the second method. The bees propensity to finish out the broodnest toward the front of the hive is strong. And combs with the typical broodnest architecture continue to be built there.

This process has been repeated twice with the same results. The original center of the broodnest (top bars 3,4,5) with its straight comb is now two-thirds of the way toward the back of the hive. Normally, my bees construct the honey storage comb in this area.

I have also moved a few "unacceptable" combs to the rear of the broodnest. Eventually these combs will end up at the rear of the hive and be harvested at the end of the season.

Regards
Dennis

[topbarguy]

Greetings,

One of my tbhs wanted to swarm a week ago. At that time I just moved the broodnest toward the rear of the hive about 6 bars. And placed the empty top bars from the rear of the hive toward the front of the hive.

Today, I worked that tbh. I had planned to cutout any queen cups/cells to prevent swarming. But I was surprised to see that the bees had changed their minds. Only a few remanent cups were found and these were unoccupied.

This is only one hive and one instance, but I would normally have to cut cells for the next two weeks to prevent swarming.

Could moving the broodnest to the rear be an effective anti swarming treatment for a tbh?

Regards
Dennis

[Scot Mc Pherson]

I am not sure, BUT my broodnest is in the front of the hive, and the bees of my strongest hives cluster in the front in the afternoons of the hotter days. Perhaps moving the nest top back allows more bees to enter the hive and NOT be a hindrance to airflow since they aren't all crowded in the front brood nest. On the other hand, bees normally place brood closer to the entrance with a small layer of honey between the entrance and the brood. I think its for insulation of sorts and I also see the smae thing in my TBHs. The 1st and sometimes 2nd comb being almost entirely honey stores. If I remove the honey to the back the bees will fill the 1st combs with honey as new bees emerge. I think perhaps having some large cell uncapped honey might be a good thing for heat management and swarm prevention.

[DeeAnna]

Bump. The OP in this thread from 2004 has a recommendation similar to Delta Bay's about putting empty bars in front of the broodnest.

[Steven Ogborn]

Hey, DeeAnna.
What does "Bump" at the beginning of your recent comments about these old posts mean? Is it used like "cool" or something?
Is it new lingo I don't know?
Steven

[Cacklewack]

Steven,

She's bumping the post back to the top of the forum. :)

Best,
Matt

[Steven Ogborn]

Oh, ok. DUH. Thanks Cacklwack. Is it A.D.D. or a blond moment? Sometimes I blame both. But, thanks.

[DeeAnna]

To "bump" means I'm not really adding anything new to the discussion. Instead, I am mainly acting to make the thread an active topic of discussion again. Bumping its status up. Giving it a bump of energy. Whatever.

[Steven Ogborn]

Thanks, DeeAnna. Cacklewack explained it to me. I understand now. Just hadn't heard it before.

[Delta Bay]

Sometimes when pulling the combs away from the front entrance of the hive the bees will curve the upper ends toward the entrance for honey storage as they work in that direction. I've been playing with a device that we are calling a false follower. A temporary follower that has the bee space or more around the edge that can be moved along as the bees build their new comb to the front of the hive. It can also be left in the hive in the number one position to remove when inspecting the brood nest if needed when honey stores are plentiful. You may not want to go through all the honey stores to have a look in the brood area. A removable spacer that gives the bee space between the end wall and false follower gives you enough wiggle room to easily remove the first comb at the entrance end. It seems to be a very helpful device in ensuring straighter combs if needed at either end of the hive.

The space around the false follower allows the bees to feastoon between the false follower and the end of the hive and they will build comb there if the board is not moved along at the appropriate time.

[DeeAnna]

I'm taking your word "false" in the sense that the bees can get around the "false" follower due to the bee space gap around it -- am I understanding correctly?

Nice idea!

Several weeks ago, I had taken out all of the "official" followers in my hives to give the bees more room in the TBHs. Since then, I have gone back to using a follower at the back end of each hive. I am having better luck controlling the comb building using the follower than without. Maybe someday I'll have the skills to know how to guide the bees' comb building without the help of a follower, but I'm not there yet.

A "false" follower would act much like the bar of old but straight brood comb I am moving through the honey storage area into retirement. The bees are building straight honey comb up against the old brood comb as well as against the follower. What has worked well so far is this arrangement of bars in the honey area:

brood comb - empty top bar - empty top bar - follower

It seems as if "trapping" two empty bars between straight-built bars (or some kind of flat surface) tends to work about as well as alternating one empty bar with a straight-built bar (or false follower), etc. Maybe my opinion will change with more experience, but it's a good hypothesis so far.

I am finding the bees are making only 3-4 honey bars at the back end of each of my 2 hives. (Although, to be fair, I keep harvesting this honey to give them room to work. If the hives were longer, I suspect there would be more honey bars than this.) The bees are putting the rest of the honey as a thick cap along the upper part of each brood nest bar. In effect, the brood nest is a long horizontal band running along the bottom of most of the hive.

Any comments from other TBH beekeepers -- Is this a typical structure one would expect to see on the combs as the bees prepare for fall and winter?

Delta Bay -- In Post #1, Dennis (topbarguy) says "...With the second method, I shift the entire broodnest toward the rear of the hive about 4 to 6 top bars...." I get the impression he did this twice in a season. Is this pretty much what you have been doing? Or did you shift the broodnest back only in spring? What are your opinions about Dennis' approach if it is different than yours?

[Delta Bay]

I'm taking your word "false" in the sense that the bees can get around the "false" follower due to the bee space gap around it -- am I understanding correctly?

Exactly!


Maybe someday I'll have the skills to know how to guide the bees' comb building without the help of a follower, but I'm not there yet.

It's a tool and to be used when the conditions require it and not a reflection of skill.


In effect, the brood nest is a long horizontal band running along the bottom of most of the hive.

What I have found in my location is that it becomes necessary to block further expansion (with a full follower) of new comb before the end of our main flow which typically ends around July 15th. Back filling of the existing combs that are only partially filled is accomplished. If timed properly the existing combs will be mostly filled from the back of the hive to the front and capped pushing the winter nest tightly to the entrance end of the hive. You really want the brood and honey storage consolidated for winter and not spread the length of the hive. I have not had to feed supplemental syrup to bump up their winter stores since practicing this.

Here swarming is usually over by the end of June beginning of July. I have found that colonies can really stuff themselves full of stores leaving a nicely compact winter cluster area. This leaves them at all times in excellent contact with their store and no doubt in which direction to move.


Or did you shift the broodnest back only in spring? What are your opinions about Dennis' approach if it is different than yours?

Once in the spring to get them beyond our swarm season. I think it all depends on location; one's flows, flow intensity, swarm season etc... in how a management scheme plays out. You will need to adjust for your area I'm sure.

[blist]

My hive filled up so quick I had to pull out the follower board completely. I have a few spacer bars at the very back so that I can pry those off and get a tool in there to release an attached comb when doing an inspection. This hive was built from golden mean hive plans but the next hive I build will have a lot more thought put into it in regards to spacing. :)