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SweetBettyBees
08-02-2006, 02:22 PM
So far the strongest thing I've used in my hives is powdered sugar and I'd like to keep it that way. For super storage with extracted comb I've been freezing the supers w/frames overnight and then storing in plastic bags. It's worked well but the process is getting a little out of hand as our numbers have grown.

I'm interested in what you all have to say about the use of para-moth. Once comb is stored in para-moth is it ever totally free of the chemicals? Can you suggest an alternative? Our storage area is an unheated garage that certainly is not bug tight.

Michael Bush
08-02-2006, 06:09 PM
>Once comb is stored in para-moth is it ever totally free of the chemicals?

I don't think so. I can still smell it.

> Can you suggest an alternative?

Bt. Certan. This:
http://www.beeworks.com/uscatalog/details/certan.asp

> Our storage area is an unheated garage that certainly is not bug tight.

The colder in the winter the better. The cleaner the comb is the better. The less cocoons and pollen, the better.

Craig W.
08-02-2006, 08:53 PM
You can also buy dipel from your local feed store. It is the same thing as certan but it contains more Bt and is cheaper. It is a power from that you can mix with water and spray down your equipment.

MichaelW
08-03-2006, 07:08 AM
the label says comb that has been stored with para-moth should never later on be used for cut comb honey, so that would tell me there is some amount of it in the wax.

MichaelW
08-03-2006, 07:19 AM
Craig I looked up Dipel, I hadn't heard of it before. here's Q&A's from their website that are helpful. Are you sure it kills wax moths? Its a differnt strain than Certan.

4. What are the effects of DiPel on bees and other beneficial insects?

Tests have shown DiPel won’t harm bees, birds, fish or other wildlife. Studies have shown that
DiPel will NOT harm beneficial insects that help keep secondary insects in check.

5. Is DiPel harmful to humans or animals?

Because of DiPel’s specific mode of action, DiPel is not harmful to humans or animals. The
biological compounds put less stress on the environment than many synthetic chemicals and
have not been observed to be harmful to fish, wildlife or livestock.
Workers are also able to handle DiPel with considerably more ease than chemical-based
compounds. EPA has granted the minimum allowable safety requirements for use with DiPel,
both in terms of application and re-entry. As with any insecticide, applicators are required to
wear gloves, long sleeves and long trousers when handling DiPel. Workers are permitted to
re-enter fields in as little as 4 hours after DiPel has been applied and crops can be harvested
the same day they are treated.

1. What is DiPel?

DiPel is the biological insecticide based on a naturally occurring compound Bacillus
thuringiensis, subsp. Kurstaki.

download:
www.valentbiosciences.com/docs/pdfs/learning_center/LC_DiPel.pdf (http://www.valentbiosciences.com/docs/pdfs/learning_center/LC_DiPel.pdf)

[ August 03, 2006, 09:25 AM: Message edited by: MichaelW ]

MichaelW
08-03-2006, 07:28 AM
Hmm.. They also make an aizwai strain which is the strain in Certan

XenTari®
XenTari is particularly effective in controlling armyworm (Spodoptera spp.) and diamondback moth (Plutella xylostella) larvae. Since its introduction, XenTari has become a cornerstone product in Integrated Pest Management (IPM) programs. It is selective and studies have shown it won't harm bees or other beneficial insects. XenTari is the only natural biological insecticide based on the potent aizawai strain. XenTari controls worms on vegetables, fruits, nuts, row crops and turf. It comes in an easy-mixing water dispersible granule formulation. XenTari is listed by the Organic Materials Review Institute (OMRI) for use in organic production.

Sundance
08-03-2006, 11:02 AM
Where can I buy XenTari??????

Craig W.
08-03-2006, 09:32 PM
Dipel kills the worm or in this case the Caterpillar. It is organic and will not hurt any other insects, only eating caterpillars. Dpel causes the caterpillar to die from the inside out. There feces becomes poison to other eating caterpillars. I use it on Tomatoes it kills the cut worm.
It will not kill the moth but will kill the worm.

Craig W.
08-03-2006, 09:34 PM
Dipel is approved for use by certified organic farmers.

MichaelW
08-04-2006, 07:35 AM
"I use it on Tomatoes it kills the cut worm."

But have you used it on wax moth larvae?
You would not have to necessarly put it on your honey comb, or use it as an unregistered pesticide to test that out.

Let me rephrase my question.
Have you experimentally placed it on wax moth larvae and observed them dying, not necessarily on stored comb?

Thanks, I may have to just run an experiment myself.

MichaelW
08-04-2006, 07:45 AM
"Where can I buy XenTari??????"

Good question

here is a list of distributers and a phone number

http://www.valent.com/distributors/WTB.asp?industry=2

Craig W.
08-04-2006, 02:31 PM
Here is some information on Bt. Dipel is a different strain of Bt. than Certan. I have never tried it on wax moth larvae as I have not had the time in bees to have this opportunity. I would suspect though that Dipel although a different strain would kill the wax moth larvae. If you have time or the opportunity to do this let me know what you find out and I will do the same if the opportunity presents itself.

http://extoxnet.orst.edu/pips/bacillus.htm

Tia
08-04-2006, 04:24 PM
I use Dipel when I can't get Certan (like this year). It works well, but when I use Dipel I try to place my supers so that they get some light. Doesn't seem to work as well as Certan.

Craig W.
08-04-2006, 06:40 PM
light would have no affect on Bt as far as making it work. Sense it is ingested by the bug. Maybe the light helps the bug somehow.

Tia
08-05-2006, 05:42 AM
The wax moths don't like the light so the combination of light and Dipel seems to work. Problem is having enough room to spread out all the supers so they get light!

Sundance
08-05-2006, 06:49 AM
I called distributors with no luck on XenTari.
I called the company directly and was forwarded
to the company rep for my area. I have a voice
mail into the rep and he has yet to get back
to me.

The questions I asked were, shelf life after
opening, and package size available. From
what I see it only comes in 2 1/2 gallon
jugs and 2 to a case. For a large operation
that would be fine I guess.

Any one want to share if I score a case???

Craig W.
08-05-2006, 10:36 AM
Bruce, Is Xentari good for anything else other than wax moth? Thats what so good about Dipel it covers everything and is 80% Bt.
Sense I farm and Dipel is so easy to get, Most freed store and anywhere you might buy this kind of stuff makes it thrifty and good business sense.

Sundance
08-05-2006, 10:46 AM
XenTari is the same strain of Bt as is Certan,
which was marketed specifically for wax moth
larva. The web site MichaelW has a link to will
give you what it targets.

Craig W.
08-07-2006, 11:26 AM
Well after reading others listings on this website and other websites about Bt. I think the dipel I have will kill the wax moth.

Thanks,

JohnBeeMan
08-08-2006, 10:19 AM
>>>Is Xentari good for anything else other than wax moth?

Based upon its label it is good for tent catapillers. I was thinking about getting some for my fruit tress and making sure my comb/supers is located on downwind side when I spray. ;) This is to keep the label police at bay.

The label also mentions mix ration of 1 tsp per gal for most applications, so a little will go a long way. However, I undertsand that it only comes in large containers.

Sundance
08-15-2006, 06:58 AM
I have ordered 30# of XenTari (minimum order)
and have listed smaller quantities for sale
in the for sale section. 1/2 pound makes 32
gallons of spray........