Mites and packages

[Forrest]

When starting packages (on foundation) what is the best method to kill any mites that come with the bees? I realize that nothing is 100%. Sure seems like a couple treatments of PS before brood is capped would sure dimish any existing population of mites that transited with the package bees. Best opportunity to wipe 'em all out. Would a day of Apistan strip be advisable as well, or?

Thanks, Forrest

[Michael Bush]

Powdered sugar makes a lot of sense on a new package with no brood. I wouldn't use the Apistan at all, myself.

[ April 12, 2006, 09:41 AM: Message edited by: Michael Bush ]

[Forrest]

Give 'em a few days to settle then sugar them? Maybe a week or so? I could still do two sugars before brood was capped. I would think a massive sugar roll while they are in the cage would be a little disheartening to them! Since they are going to have to draw comb it will be quite a few days before brood is capped.

Thanks, Forrest

[Michael Bush]

If I were going to do it, I'd sugar them while they are in the package. But if they aren't anymore, I'd let them get settled in a litte before you hit them. It does make them a bit upset and you don't want to cause them to abscond.

[jnbgcpd]

Would OA Vapor not also be a good idea??? I have never tried it on packages but it sure seems like it would be the best bet. Anybody else have an opinion on OA on packages?

[jnbgcpd]

Sorry about the last post. Didnt realize I was in the Biological thread. I guess OA would be counterproductive for Biological beekeeping. Thanks

[BULLSEYE BILL]

The problem with OA on a cluster is that you don't get good dispesial between the bees. It could help, but you won't get the acid on all the bees especially the ones in the center of the cluster.

[Michael Bush]

>Would OA Vapor not also be a good idea??? I have never tried it on packages but it sure seems like it would be the best bet. Anybody else have an opinion on OA on packages?

If you want to do OA (and I would do small cell instead) I'd do it in the fall after brood rearing stops. They probably don't have that many now so why stress them out that much now?

[naturebee]

I would not worry about mites that come with the package.

* You cannot never insure that you have wiped them all out.

* The package would likely get mites very soon anyways from the nearby feral and domestic colonies.

* The spring is not the time to worry about mites, a package of bees with vigorous young queen will easily out run the mites while brooding up.

* A colony with high mite populations would likely not be capable of producing enough healthy bees to make a package. A reputable package bee supplier would not take bees from a colony with suppressed or infested population of bees such as this.

* Relax and enjoy your bees, implement a long term control program of your choosing into your beekeeping practices. This would be much more effective than to go for the mite kill now and stressing out the package during it’s critical colony initiation and growth stage.

[Ian D]

Hi all
Any swarm/package or shook swarm can be treated with a fine mist spray of Oxalic similar to the trickle method used in winter.

I like collecting swarms and use them in the production of comb honey by adding 2-3 together.
What I have found however is that come the end of the year these hives often show a very heavey infestation of Varroa. So why not start with a clean slate. THE ONLY GOOD MITE IS A DEAD ONE!!!!


Regards Ian

[AstroBee]

Why not give Sucrocide a try? I suspect that it would add very little additional stress to the package and you'd probably get really good effectiveness. I like the clean slate idea too. Worth a try.

[Dave W]

WE HAVE A WINNER!!!!!

The "best beekeepers' answer" to original question was given by Pcolar. I'll repeat it for anyone who missed it smile.gif

> I would not worry about mites that come with the package.

> You cannot never insure that you have wiped them all out.

> The package would likely get mites very soon anyways from the nearby feral and domestic colonies.

> The spring is not the time to worry about mites, a package of bees with vigorous young queen will easily out run the mites while brooding up.

> A colony with high mite populations would likely not be capable of producing enough healthy bees to make a package. A reputable package bee supplier would not take bees from a colony with suppressed or infested population of bees such as this.

> Relax and enjoy your bees, implement a long term control program of your choosing into your beekeeping practices. This would be much more effective than to go for the mite kill now and stressing out the package during it’s critical colony initiation and growth stage.

[naturebee]

Thanks Dave!, I was wondering if anybody read it. ;)

As a licensed pesticide applicator here in PA. We have strict rules to follow concerning the use of pesticide. Basically, if it is used to kill an insect, it is classified as a pesticide.

The rule I think is most important, is that you identify the target pest before application. I get calls to spray rental apartments all the time, and many people INSIST I spray. But I will not spray until I have seen the pest myself, determined by evidence it is present, or the tenant has shown me a sample of the pest. Any spraying of a pesticide without first identifying that the target pest is present is a misuse of pesticide.

It is important to know the life cycle of the pests you are targeting. In the case of the varroa (as in most insects), an overall long term IPM strategy always works best.

I can’t assume it is a responsible decision to kill a pest that hasn’t been established is present, or even at what levels. EIL samples of mites can be taken as the colony grows, this will better enable you to make responsible decisions when pesticide is necessary for the colony.

Best Wishes,

[AstroBee]

Sounds great Pcolar, but do you honestly believe that there's a mite free package out there? If so, please post the name of that supplier, I guarantee they'll have my business. smile.gif

[naturebee]

Astrobee,
Your missing the point!
As a licensed pesticide applicator, I know that there probably not a bug free house out there either. But to use a pesticide in a house on the assumption or fear that there may be a bug present would simply be irresponsible.

Forrest as a newbee asked a perfectly good question. And the responsible thing for experienced beekeepers on this list to do, would be to set Forrest on the right track with a long term strategy of mite control. To give advice that Forrest treat his bees regardless of the EIL of mites is not setting a good practice of pesticide use that he can use for a lifetime.

--->
--Sounds great Pcolar, but do you honestly believe that there's a mite free package out there? If so, please post the name of that supplier, I guarantee they'll have my business,,,
--->

I ask you in return.,,,
Find me a credible reference that recommends treating package bees in this manner, without knowing the EIL? smile.gif

This is why we in the pest control biz read labels, to do otherwise leads to misuse. smile.gif

[Dave W]

I "honestly believe" the package I installed Apr 12, 2003 (3# package Italian bees & queen purchased from Walter T. Kelly Co., shipped from Hardeman Apiaries, Soperton, GA 30457), was mite-free, heres why:

MITE COUNTS - 2003
Apr 12 – Installed 3# Package
Jun 1 – 0
Jun 9 – First Mite
Jun 25 – 5
Jul 27 – 14
Aug 7 – 21
Aug 18 – Apistan IN
Oct 5 – Apistan OUT
Oct 20 – 11
Nov 20 – 12
Nov 21 – 14
Nov 22 – 16
Nov 30 – 3.3 (26/8)
(This hive died Mar,06)

Have you done any mite counts this year?

[ April 18, 2006, 10:23 AM: Message edited by: Dave W ]

[AstroBee]

>Your missing the point!

I beg to differ. He's asking if treating a package is a good idea. I don't recommend using apistan as he suggests or anything of similar nature, e.g., CheckMite, but I find no reason whatsoever that using something as soft as Sucrocide would have any measurable downside. If the package does have mites (and I still believe that all packages do, or at least the probability is so high that to assume otherwise is just wishful thinking) then what could possibly be the downside of using a soft treatment?

Regarding the Hardeman package, I find it hard to believe that the death of this package was mite related. If it were then I'd be looking for a different set of genetics or alternate explanations. I've had higher mite counts and made it through with no treatments whatsoever. Furthermore, a mite drop count is certainly not a definitive statement on a hive's mite free status.

I'll be installing a package this afternoon and will be using Sucrocide as I suggested. I will also be looking at drop counts to get a feel on what kind of mite load came in with the package.

[Dave W]

AstroBee . . .

>Regarding the Hardeman package . . .
Please RE-read my post.
Numbers given are for FIRST YEAR.
My package "lived" from Apr 03 to Mar 06?

>something as soft as Sucrocide . . .
Right on! Suckercide is sooo soft I DIDNT have
"any measurable downside" to any MITES either.

Have you used it?

[AstroBee]

Sorry Dave, I didn't read your numbers closely enough.

Yes, I have used Sucrocide exclusively since the spring of 2004 and have had great results - zero mite related deaths.

[oldgreyone]

>If I were going to do it, I'd sugar them while they are in the package.

Wouldn't the mites just drop to the bottom and get back on the bees when you dumped the bees into the hive?

[Michael Bush]

I would use a SBB and they would fall through. But that depends on many issues of how you hive is set up, how you sugared them etc. One way would be to dump them in an empty box on the SBB and then sprinkle them well with powdered sugar and then put the frames in.

[jessbee]

Michael,

I am using a Guy's screen above a solid bottom board. I have no bees, just everything set up. Can the mites crawl back up into the hive through the screen?

Thanks.

[Michael Bush]

>Can the mites crawl back up into the hive through the screen?

That question has been asked many times. Personally I don't think many of them do anyway.

[clintonbemrose]

I dust the Packages with powdered sugar that has no cornstarch in it. It knocks down most of the mites and the bees can eat what sticks to their bodies
Clint

[oldgreyone]

Where do you get powdered sugar without corn starch in it?

[Dave W]

"Beekeeper's Sugar" has no added starches (can interfere w/ bees digestion) and can be found in Mann Lake Catalog, 2006, p45 / $3.95 per 3 lb pail.

[Maine_Beekeeper]

I second that question! where do you get powdered sugar without cornstarch? Do you have a brand name?

[Michael Bush]

>"Beekeeper's Sugar" has no added starches (can interfere w/ bees digestion) and can be found in Mann Lake Catalog, 2006, p45 / $3.95 per 3 lb pail.

[Spring Island Bees]

I only have 4 hives so this would not work for someone with a lot of hives but I take regular sugar and pulverize to a fine powder in my blender. It works perfect for me.

[oldgreyone]

I would be careful about using a blender. Sugar pulverized in a blender only needs a static spark to make your blender into a nasty mess. Powdered sugar is quite explosive when air born as it would be in a blender and it doesn't take much to create a static spark with the sugar swirling around.

[Sasha]

Hahaha you gyus from the USA are becoming too carefull with this precausions.
Sugar to explode?
Hahaha,maybee ,but thats too much ...
Sorry,I just couldnt resist

[George Fergusson]

>Sugar to explode?

Humorous but not impossible. I don't know if the volume of sugar in a blender poses a threat, I doubt it, but entire buildings, bubble gum factories, container ships, grain elevators, etc., have been blown to smithereens when the air became laden with burnable dust like flour, sugar, or grain dust and a spark touched it off. Grind up just about anything fine enough and mix it with enough air and you've got a potential explosion.

[vajerzy]

I had this question and I found an answer.....great board this is!!

I'll not do Apistan strips in the package that's been in the hive for 3 weeks.