make screened bottom board?

[Maine_Beekeeper]

I purchased a screened bottom board from Brushy Mountain and want to make more of my own.
I've built the frames but the only screening I can find locally is 1/4"(at the major real hardware store and also Paris Farmers Union). The plans on this website call for 1/8".
Can I double up the 1/4" (staggered) or should I wait and try to order 1/8" (and from where?)

[power napper]

You can not "double it up" to make 1/8th inch or #8 hardware cloth. There have been several discussions on this forum about where to buy and so on. Some bee supply companies even sale it, I think Betterbee sells #5, #6, #7 and #8 galvenized hardware cloth in ten foor and hundred foot rolls. Do you have any tsc tractor supply stores near you? Ace hardware, home depot maybe!

[wayacoyote]

maine beek,
I thought up the same idea. One problem would be that you have to stager the second layer of cloth diagonally, not just one direction, but both. And they would have to be equally taut. That gets complicated. Surely, a screened bottom board (SBB) doesn't have to be THAT exact, I suppose. But you'll find out that getting the right stuff not only saves you hassels, but there are so many other uses of #8 cloth that will come your way.

Waya

[clintonbemrose]

Most hardware stores have it or can order it for you.
I get mine at Ace hardware.
Clint

[RBar]

Anybody seen a plan they can give me a link to a screened bottom board?
OR...share yours?

Roy

[george dilley]

http://beesource.com/plans/ipmbottom.htm

[2hives]

Brushy Mountain sells it by the foot, and cheaper than what a local hardware store sells it for.

[BaldyLocks]

I have some I built in an emergeny using the 1/4 inch mesh. Since then, I have just left them and they work just fine. Bees can get through the mesh but it rarely happns...though watch for robbing if the nearby hives are of different strength...just my 2 cents

[claude hachey]

I posted plans and pictures of my screened bottom board at the Oregon beekeepers site that may interest you. See:
http://orsba.proboards27.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1144021565

[MichaelW]

Here's my 2X4 version. Good if you have scrap 2X4's or want a heavy duty bottom.

http://web.utk.edu/~wu4you/ACBeekeepers/equipment.htm

[wfarler]

Most of the 1/8th inch screen is sold for making bird or rabbit cages. Try rural hardware stores, that's where I usually find it. The big boxes don't carry it and you can never get any help to find or order it.

[Pugs]

Out here in Oregon, I've found it at larger True Value Hardware Stores. Since I've never been to Maine, I don't know if you have them.

Pugs

[George Fergusson]

Maine Beekeeper, I've bought it at Harvey's Hardware store in Gardiner Maine. Cost $2.50 a foot. I also buy my used paint there, they save it for me now. I'd think any reputable hardware store could order it for you if they don't have it.

[Barefoot-In-Florida]

In my area, west/central coast of Florida, I have found that Home Depot and Lowes, the larger chain hardware stores do not carry it. Yet most of the smaller "Mom and Pop" hardware stores will carry it. Either selling it by the foot, or a prepackaged roll (I believe 50 feet to a roll at one hardwrae store sold for around $80.00).

[PA Pete]

Local hardware store here in Spring City carries it smile.gif

Yep, they have True Value here on the east coast and even up in Maine smile.gif

[mdotson]

I went by a local Ace Hardware Store today. They had in stock a 24" X 50' roll of 8 X 8 hardware cloth but they wanted $101.81 for it. They wouldn't sell part rolls. I will find another source.

[GeeBeeNC]

I've found that the only place that it can be purchased in Columbus County is at Pierce and Company in Hallsboro. It's at the stop light! Pierce and Company is an interesting place. They have all the usual items of an old time hardware store, nails by the pound, hardware cloth, replacement handles for garden and hand tools, Radio Flyer wagons, adult one speed bikes with baloon tires, wooden lawn furniture and porch swings. Replacement gaskets for your pressure cooker are in stock as well as a variety of cast iron cookware. But they also have building supplies, even bricks.

And of course the working entrance is at the side of the building, not between the angled storefront windows. The floor is tongue and groove boards worn smoothe.

But if that's not enough there's a butcher shop in the one corner. Complete with sausage ground and stuffed right in sight,

#8 hardwarecloth is sold by the foot @$1.60/

[Branman]

have any of you guys just cut out a rectangle out of a regular bottom board and put screen on it?

seems like it would almost be as good, just no sheet for mite count

[claude hachey]

If you are trying to make a screened bottom board out of an standard bottom board, you would probably be better off to consider making a screened insert which would also give you the possibility of easier sampling for natural mite drop. What you want to do is maximize the screened area to improve efficiency and accurateness of mite drop count.

All that would be involved is to frame up a screen at the same dimensions as your bottom board and you can leave a space for a drawer or if you don't want a drawer, you can use the space for sticky paper. The space between the bottom board floor and the screen should be at least 1 1/2 to 2 inches. Mites are mobile little !#&*^**#@*&! Make a plate to fit the opening to prevent the bees from using the wrong entrance or simply turn your bottom board to the rear for sampling from the back (less bee disturbance).

A point to consider - It has been shown that open screen boards actually increase the mite count due to the lowering of cluster temperature which lenghtens the brood cycle allowing more mites to mature inside the capped cell. The screen boards that I use have the entrance reduced to 3/8 inch height rather than the standard 3/4 in an effort to shorten brood cycle. One of the reasons that AFB are able to cope with mites is their shorter brood cycle along with their penchant for swarming... Food for thought - As one of my buds once said - "You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear"

As far as 1/8 screen mesh, try to get the 36" wide stuff as it goes twice as far - no waste like the 24" stuff.

[PA Pete]

The bottom boards I got from Brushy Mountain just had string criss-crossed under the board to hold the mite count sheet. I'd think you could do the same with a regular bottom board.

[ June 04, 2006, 12:07 PM: Message edited by: PA Pete ]

[Branman]

I was thinking the same thing...so just cut out a rectangle and staple some #8 hardware cloth over it?

[Michael Bush]

>If you are trying to make a screened bottom board out of an standard bottom board, you would probably be better off to consider making a screened insert which would also give you the possibility of easier sampling for natural mite drop. What you want to do is maximize the screened area to improve efficiency and accurateness of mite drop count.

What I want is better ventilation and a way to measure mite drop. The insert will not give me the ventilation I want.

[Dave W]

Dont waste your time w/ an "insert". Cutting a hole in std BB is best. If you add some "legs/runners/spacers" to bottom of the std BB, you can slide (from back) a "sticky board" underneath, and have excellent ventilation too.

[claude hachey]

Michael B

Your answer has left me confused in understanding your approach to mite control. I understand that you want better ventilation and are therefore opting for an open screen board and that you want a board that can be used for mite counts. The trade off for ventilation would then be an increased mite load?

Here is a study that showed open screen boards showed higher mite infestations when compared to drawer equipped boards:

http://www.reineschapleau.wd1.net/research.en.html

Here is the excerpt from Jean Pierre Chapleau"s study

"The thermal factor and the anti-varroa bottom board
The important difference in the global results obtained in 2000 (29.2% more varroa mites) and 2001
(37% less varroa mites) for sub group AV suggest a confirmation of the negative thermal influence
assumed in the 2000 trials. In 2000, all of the anti-varroa bottom boards were operated with the
bottom opened while in 2001, with the exception of the YBO group, the bottom boards were operated
with the bottom closed. To our knowledge, this is the only operational factor that was systematically
different between the 2000 and 2001 trials. The results strongly suggest a connection between this
factor and the negative results obtained with the use of anti-varroa bottom boards during the 2000
trials. We can legitimately assume that the brood cluster temperature was lowered with the use of the
opened anti-varroa bottom board. Numerous references can be found in scientific literature
confirming that lower temperature conditions enhance the development of varroa populations.
Ingemar Fries (12) states: “(…) mite population seems to grow faster in cooler climates than in
warmer areas (…) it has been suggested that climatic factors are decisive in determining the mite
population growth although the mechanism remains unclear.” We can believe that a longer period of
time in the capped brood stage resulting from a lower temperature favors an increase in the
reproductive rate of the varroa mite’s population. An increase of time in the capped brood stage
enables the young female varroa mites to reach maturity before the bee emerges from its cell. Kraus
and Velthuis (14) found that artificially reducing the brood temperature of colonies had the effect of
doubling the mite population in comparison with control groups. Their laboratory tests allowed them
to determine that 33 C was the optimal temperature for varroa mite reproduction. Kraus and Velthuis
(14) suggest that beekeepers adopt practices that aid colonies in maintaining brood temperature at
35 C. The results obtained by Kraus and Velthuis were not available when planning for the 2000
trials as they were published in October of the same year. Reference to the influence of temperature
on the rhythm of natural varroa drop can also be found in recent scientific literature. Thomas C.
Webster (4) found that this drop is correlated to the average outdoor daytime temperature. J.T.
Ambrose (13) also found (2001) that when infested adult bees were exposed to variable temperatures
in laboratory conditions, the percentage of varroa mites falling from the bees increased with the
elevation of the ambient temperature. Here again we can deduce that the brood chamber
temperature should not be lowered.
Nevertheless, the negative impact of the use of open anti-varroa bottom boards was not universal
since in 2000, the AV sub groups of two locations (MAI and JOY) demonstrated positive results
despite opened bottoms. Similarly, in 2001, the only location where the open bottom board was used
yielded a positive result (YBO 35%). However these exceptions can be logically explained. For
location MAI in 2000 as well as YBO in 2001, the manner of placing the hives on the ground and the
terrain conditions limited the air circulation under the open bottom boards and therefore limited the
cooling effect on the hive. Furthermore the colonies in the MAI group in 2000 were maintained in a
crowded two super condition for the production of queen cells. No doubt, this condition contributed to
higher brood chamber temperatures. The third location (JOY) was situated in a well sheltered
clearing fully exposed to the sun. It is possible that for these locations and in these circumstances,
the open bottom boards did not cause a lowering of temperature of the brood chamber. In light of
these facts, the use of the anti-varroa board with an open bottom seems completely inadvisable in
environmental conditions comparable to those in Quebec. The enclosed table can be consulted in
regards to the average minimum and maximum temperatures of the area where the tests we..."

Here is another abstract that concluded that capping time was influenced by brood temperature:

http://www.edpsciences.org/articles/apido/abs/2005/01/M4055/M4055.html

The abstract states:

Abstract - An assessment was made of tracheal mite susceptibility in honeybees pupated at a low temperature. Using a laboratory bioassay, an experiment was conducted to compare the performance of newly-emerged (callow) bees raised at 30 ºC with those raised at the more normal brood temperature of 34 ºC. The reduced temperature caused a delay of over 5 days in the emergence of the bees from the brood cells. The callow bees raised at 30 ºC had over twice the mite prevalence level. The fecundity of the mites in the tracheae was similar for both temperature conditions. Increased susceptibility to tracheal mites resulting from reduced brood temperature may help to explain the mortality, in the temperature-stressed late winter/early spring period, of colonies with a moderate mite infestation in autumn. Further work is required to identify the mechanism responsible for this increased susceptibility.

In view of this, and your post on shortened capping times on small cell, would you reconsider the use of open screen boards? I mean no disrespect - just would like your thoughts. A difference of five days in capped brood duration due to temperature is huge. I realize that it gets a lot hotter in your area compared to mine but am quite certain that this is not the case year round.

In short, these are the reasons for my favoring a drawer equipped board and if trying to make a screen board out of an existing bottom board, then I would opt for an insert.

Cold,wet and miserable up north,

Claude

[Michael Bush]

>Your answer has left me confused in understanding your approach to mite control. I understand that you want better ventilation and are therefore opting for an open screen board and that you want a board that can be used for mite counts. The trade off for ventilation would then be an increased mite load?

I have no discernable mite load.

I am not having varroa mite problems. Bees bearded on the front of the hive are not making honey. I use SBB to have ventilation so I can keep the nectar eveaporating and the bees working. I let the bees use natural cell size to deal with Varroa.

>Here is another abstract that concluded that capping time was influenced by brood temperature:

"bees raised at 30 ºC with those raised at the more normal brood temperature of 34 ºC. The reduced temperature caused a delay of over 5 days in the emergence of the bees from the brood cells."

I only open them up when the bees start bearding in the late spring I have no expectation of the brood nest of my bees ever being 30 C. What I have observed, with small cell, is two days shorter emergence. 19 days is the norm.

>The callow bees raised at 30 ºC had over twice the mite prevalence level.

With five days longer emergence that's what I would expect. How do you keep a brood nest 30 C? Any strong hive will keep it 34 C or so. It would take a weak hive, excess ventilation, and too big a space to get that cool now and then, let alone consitantly, wouldn't it?

>In view of this, and your post on shortened capping times on small cell, would you reconsider the use of open screen boards?

I only open them up when the bees are obviously in need of ventilation.

> I mean no disrespect - just would like your thoughts. A difference of five days in capped brood duration due to temperature is huge.

And I don't think you can, in a normal hive, cause this to happen.

> I realize that it gets a lot hotter in your area compared to mine but am quite certain that this is not the case year round.

Our last day for frost is about the middle of May.

>In short, these are the reasons for my favoring a drawer equipped board and if trying to make a screen board out of an existing bottom board, then I would opt for an insert.

I always have inserts. I close them from September or so until May. I also want to be able to open them when it gets hot until it cools off in the fall.

[claude hachey]

I was under the impression that you were advocating open screen boards for year round use. Makes much more sense to me now. Thanks for the clarification.

I agree that there would have to be extreme combination of circumstances for brood temperature to be at 30C but if I can help them get it up to 35C then perhaps I am speeding up the brood cycle and providing some degree of mite control. I will have to stop procrastinating and try some small cell...perhaps next week...

[Michael Bush]

I have never advocated open screened bottom boards for year round use.

>but if I can help them get it up to 35C then perhaps I am speeding up the brood cycle and providing some degree of mite control.

The core of the brood nest WHEN it has brood in it is like your body temperature. It takes a lot of extreme circumstances to make it fluctuate by very much and then it usually won't last very long. I don't think the bees reqire your help to get it up to 35C. It's really the -20 F nights and the sometimes 60mph winds that make me put in the tray. But I leave it in until the bees tell me it's too hot by bearding. Then I think it's important that I help them get back to work, keep the combs from collapsing, and help them dry the nectar.

[Dan Williamson]

>>I was under the impression that you were advocating open screen boards for year round use.

Some beekeepers do this very thing. I left one of my SBB open all winter last year. That hive built up as quickly and has performed just as well as those other hives with the SBB closed.

Our winter was mild this year. I saw only had a few nights around -4 degrees and that was in December.

I'm not sure I'd do that with all my hives but the results were better than I expected them to be.

[Aspera]

My SBB are open all year and do not seem to cause any problem. I do use slatted racks though, and this might help protect against some winter drafts. Also, PA has very mild winters compared to the many other regions. When it gets cold, the bees simply migrate up a bit higher into the hives.