Quick brood buildup with better ventilation?

[TDSAMMONS]

Hi folks, I have talked two other beekeepers recently that reported excellent buildup to very strong hive conditions on all hives with open screened bottom boards. Both gentlemen attributed the rapid buildup to higher ventilation. I would like to hear from anyone with information either pro or con on this subject. I have yet to try this, so I do not know if it works, thanks.

------------------
Travis S.

[Michael Bush]

I have heard of studies to support this. I have not used the SSB before, but have used ventilation systems and the bees do build up better and produce more with the added ventilation.

[TDSAMMONS]

Thanks Michael, I had one SBB and placed it under our smallest, but best 4.9 hive. If you have any place to aquire further information I would appreciate recieving it. If anyone else is using screened bottom boards and have noticed any change in their brood increase please let us know. Thanks

------------------
Travis S.

[WiredForStereo]

I am in the process of testing SBB's on some of my package bees.
I am awaiting the results as much as anyone.


------------------
Sol Parker
Southern Oregon Apiaries

[Robert Brenchley]

I've been using them for a couple of years, and I'm much happier using them. The climate here is damp, it cuts out condensation and mould during the winter, and makes it far easier to monitor mite levels.

[TDSAMMONS]

Thanks everyone, Robert, I too have noticed problems with condensation on all my wintered hives. Some of them so bad that they molded and mildewed in the frames of the top super. I was wondering what your winter low temperature would be. Ours in Spokane sometimes drops below 0 degrees Fahrenheit for short periods of time. I was wondering what would be a good indicator as to when I should close the SBB up in the fall and when to open them in the spring.
Thanks!

------------------
Travis S.

[Robert Brenchley]

My temperature drops below 0C for short periods, usually. We had two winters when it went below -5, but that's unusual, and last winter was back to the normal pattern. Its very damp in winter though, which is the critical thing here. I never close the bottoms.

[odfrank]

My first year on SBB - observaton:

They sure DO NOT help cut down swarming... I have new queens, large brood chambers, plenty of super room.... ans they are swarming faster than I can keep count.

[Michael Bush]

Here it can drop to 20 degrees below 0 Farenheit. It often drops to 10 degrees below 0 Farenheit. Sometimes it stays that temp for a week. Sometimes it goes all winter and never gets that cold. In a blowing blizzard at 10 below I don't think I would want the bottom open.

[Robert Brenchley]

I've never experienced temperatures like that so I can't comment. Anyone in the States with relevant experience? I know people with very cold winters do use them successfully.

I agree that SBB's don't prevent swarmng, but then i woldn't expect them to. A swarming colony is usually a successful one!

[TDSAMMONS]

Thanks all for the help, sorry for the delayed reply, but have been working frantically with my bees. I have one question concerning swarming. I assume the swarming problem is from rapid build up. My question is, if the bees have a good hot nectar flow, plenty of super space, how quick are they increasing from one full box of brood and bees to two and/or three boxes? I realize that this will vary from locale to locale. Thanks!

------------------
Travis S.

[Michael Bush]

Not only by locale, but from year to year and hive to hive. How much they are fed, what they are fed etc.

First there is a huge difference between them drawing and filling a box and them just filling drawn comb. Also, when they are bringing in nectar they need a lot of cells to put some nectar in to give it surface area to evaporate. So even though the combs may not be full, if they are all partially filled with something, the bees may be looking for more room to spread it out. Also, swarming usually is because the brood nest is crowded, not because the supers are crowded, although that does add into the equations some.

How fast to fill a box? A couple of pounds package of bees starting from scratch with foundation, will probably take a month or more to completely fill a medium box with bees, honey, pollen etc. Probably a month and a half to fill a deep. No gaurentees they won't do it faster. No gaurentees it won't take a lot longer. But by then the population has exploded and they next box will not take nearly as long. On the other hand weather etc. and the bees could make it take much longer.

[WiredForStereo]

one of my hives with SBB's has a serious condensation problem, I had to tilt the lid so the water would evaporate. My hives with solid bottom boards and upper entrances have no condensation whatsoever even in the pouring rain.

------------------
Sol Parker
Southern Oregon Apiaries
http://www.allnaturalhoney.com

[TDSAMMONS]

Thanks Sol for the information we also closed up our screened bottom boards.
Maybe I'm just a nervous parent, but at 4 or 5 degrees with 50 mile an hour gusts of wind made me nervous so we closed them up.
I have noticed condensed ice between the top and the inner cover on all our hives, this seems to be normal to me. Thanks

------------------
Travis S.

[TDSAMMONS]

I should have asked this question on my last posting, but here goes, Sol, did you notice any difference in hive size between your open and closed bottom board hives?
Has anyone else out there noticed increased moisture in open screened bottom board hives?
If so or not we would still like to here concerning this. Thanks!

------------------
Travis S.

[Robert Brenchley]

Quite the opposite; I use SBB's largely because I don't get condensation with them. Could it be anything to do with the siting of the hive?

[Robert Brenchley]

Quite the opposite; I use SBB's largely because I don't get condensation with them. Could it be anything to do with the siting of the hive?

------------------
Regards,

Robert Brenchley

RSBrenchley@aol.com
Birmingham UK

[TDSAMMONS]

Thanks Robert for your reply, I have noticed with our hives running inner covers on all whether solid bottom boards or open screened we have some condensed ice between the outer and inner covers.
We do not seem to be having the problem that Sol is having with high codensation on our open SBB's.
Have you noticed this year any quicker build-up on your SBB hives through the honey season?
Thanks!

------------------
Travis S.

[Robert Brenchley]

Hard to say sine I was an early convert and started using them almost as soon as I started keeping bees. They've always built up fast, but I don't know whether any of that is arttributable to the bottoms.

------------------
Regards,

Robert Brenchley

RSBrenchley@aol.com
Birmingham UK

[Robert Brenchley]

Hard to say since I was an early convert and started using them almost as soon as I started keeping bees. They've always built up fast, but I don't know whether any of that is attributable to the bottoms.

------------------
Regards,

Robert Brenchley

RSBrenchley@aol.com
Birmingham UK

[WiredForStereo]

"did you notice any difference in hive size between your open and closed bottom board hives?"

Not too much difference. I had two really good hives that did really well, one was an sbb hive an the other was an upper entrance hive. I did notice that the bees didnt much like to build on the very bottom of the bottom frames right next to the screen. Also, the winter cluster is much higher in the SBB hives than in the UE hives.

"Has anyone else out there noticed increased moisture in open screened bottom board hives?"

As I stated, one of my SBB hives was having a serious condensation problem to the point of mould, but I propped up the lid about 1/4 inch and it went away.



------------------
Sol Parker
Southern Oregon Apiaries
http://www.allnaturalhoney.com

[TDSAMMONS]

Thanks Sol for the information, our hives that are SBB's appear very strong as we went into the fall. We've had a couple days of flying weather recently and 80% of our hives seem strong. Maybe we'll know more in the spring concerning ventilation differences up here in the snow country. At this point in time I would say our weak hives appear to be from bad laying queens of which we had many and some we didn't get replaced. Thanks!

------------------
Travis S.