Dust Collector System Recommendations

[Sundance]

I am looking to hook up dust collection to
the equipment and would appreciate any and
all recommendations.

It will hook to the following:

2 each 10" table saws
1 each bench top table saw
1 each band saw
1 each radial arm saw
1 each router table
1 each bench top belt/disc sander
1 each table scroll saw

I'm thinking I'm going to need 4" piping??

What hp and or CFM is recommended.

Any experiences with the cheaper units you
see in Harbor Freight on on ebay??

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-2-HP-Industrial-Dust-Collector-FREE-SHIPPING_W0QQitemZ250076730522QQihZ015QQcategoryZ6 32QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Appreciate your help!!

[kamerrill]

Hi Sundance:
It depends on your runs. You could probably get away with with 4" but I don't think that you will be able to get enough airflow to pick-up the big chips yet alone the fine (harmful 1 micron) dust even with a 2hp collector with 4" ducting. I run 6" S&D. I have a Grizzly 2hp 1029. If you look at the 2hp reviews, Grizzly and Delta are on the top of the list followed by Jet. Don't go cheap...don't do it. I have about the same number of machines but I also run a 6" jointer and a 12" planer.

Both the links below focus on cyclones, but have a lot of great information about ducting, hood design, etc... The second link has a really good introduction to ducting and CFM.

http://billpentz.com/woodworking/Cyclone/TerryHatfieldDCDucts.htm

http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/Ducting.cfm

Good luck!!

[ January 27, 2007, 07:53 PM: Message edited by: kamerrill ]

[BerkeyDavid]

I have the Griz 2 hp with a 4 inch hose, run it on 220. But I just have a single run of hose about 15 feet long and I manually set it up on each machine.

THe biggest pain is changing the dust bag.

And when I run it on my 20" planer it would plug up quick.

So I added a cheap plastic cylcon lid, fits on a galvanized garbage can.

If I ever upgrade I will go with the new cyclone machines. THey have really improved them and the price has come down.

The minimum I would go with is the Griz G0440 which is $745, has 2 hp but with the cyclone it is really much better than the old style.

Or check out Oneida air Pro 1500 (http://www.oneida-air.com/products/systems/pro_1500/pro_1500.htm)

[BerkeyDavid]

Correction, I have a 1 HP grizzly. I also have a dust collector up on the ceiling to get the ambient dust out of the air. But I find myself wearing a dust mask a lot.

That is why I am leaning towards the newer models. And I am sold on the cyclone.

I have a friend who loves the bags of chips from the garbage can cyclone for his horses. ANother guy I know actually sells the chips to a horse barn.

But they won't take walnut because it is bad for the horses.

[BerkeyDavid]

Sundance
I went back and looked at that 2 hp for $179. It looks just like my grizzly, I would go for it at that price.

[Sundance]

Thanks so much guys! The links are wonderful.
And as usual, nothing is cut and dry and I
have a lot to mull over...

I will only be running one machine at a time
but I sure like the Cyclone! It always comes
down to the $$$ Further reason to buy boxes
I guess....

[Sundance]

Is this one too wimpy?? I sure like the
portable idea.

http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Delta-50-850A-1-5-Hp-Dust-Collector-1200-CFM_W0QQitemZ130070630977QQihZ003QQcategoryZ61574Q QrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[BerkeyDavid]

These aren't rocket science. I don't see paying an extra 200 for the Delta name. I think that would give you plenty of power, as long as your runs aren't too long and you don't have lots of bends.

THere is a way you can calculate the CFM based on the length of the runs and the number of 90 degree bends. The more bends and the longer the run the more you need.

I just pull my 1 hp around to each machine and it gives me plenty - I use the garbage can cyclone for the planer, and sometimes for the jointer.

[John F]

The most expensive machine is the cheap one that doesn't do the job.

The real answer depends on what you are trying to do. Are you interested in chip collection only? Are you interested in removing the dust from the air and alleviating the health risks?

My advice is to do some more research and especially read over Bill Pentz's site (http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/Index.cfm).

I'm going to just say no on the 4inch pipe. You can probably get away with it if you do as BerkeyDavid does and make a short run to one machine at a time. But basically, you won't move enough air.

The ceiling mounted (or any auxillary, really) dust collectors (air cleaners) are a waste of money because they clean the air too late. My perspective here is the health aspects; You are already breathing the dust. They do a fine job if you are interested only in the clean shop aspect. Take that money and put it towards the main collector.

Depending on how your shop is set up you can do pretty well with a system that collects chips well and then exhausts to the outside.

[Sundance]

Thanks John..... Energy saving is important in
the winter here. So exhausting into the room
will be a must, at least in the winter.

I agree on the ceiling dust collectors. Besides
they are big $$$ and I would rather put the $$
into the collector.

Health is #1 but a clean shop isn't far behind
that for me.

Thank all for the continued advise. One of my
faults (or strengths) is I tend to over study
just about every decision regarding bees and
other purchases. Comes from hard learned errors
in the past (and in the future) I am sure.

[John F]

<BerkeyDavid>
These aren't rocket science.Sorry for chiming in again but this comment made me chuckle a bit.

If we are talking about cyclones then actually it is sort of rocket science, or very close.

Cyclones are filters that work by forcing particle mass out of a fluid flow with a shear.

Now not all cyclones are equal. Most of the cheaper cyclones are built using dimensions that are more in tuned with filtering chaff from grains. The shear isn't so severe that it forces out smaller masses and will allow dust to remain in the flow.

Bill's design creates a very severe shear that even dust to 4 microns can't make the turn. (Tests are available at the Clear Vue site found through Bill's site and were done by a 3rd party).

A big part of the reason for the difference is that the cheaper cyclones can operate with smaller motors. So if you go with a cheaper cyclone then be sure it exhausts outside or has good dust filtering.

Basically, move enough air at the machine so that you have the dust contained. Separate the chips. Do something with the dust other than sending it back into the air you are breathing.

[Sundance]

I suppose I could build a long heat exchanger
if I had to exhaust outside. And don't do any
woodworking when it's below zero, like the next
7 days will be!! :eek: :eek:

[John F]

10-4 on the energy saving. Somehow, North Dakota weather has been visiting this area this year. It's cold here today.

I don't see studying a purchase until you fully understand it (or feel you do) as a fault. But I suppose over study could be... analysis paralysis.

My Shop is half of a 2 car garage (and a kitchen table whenever I get away with it). I went through the analysis you are going through now and decided to not buy one of those bag collectors and wait to get a Pentz style cyclone or build one. This mean I still wheel everything out to my driveway when I work. Right now I have my money in good casters. smile.gif

[John F]

smile.gif smile.gif

LOL

I even drew up a sketch of a big heat exchanger and contemplated just where in the yard the dust would settle.

Check out the Clear Vue site. He has what you want...

[BerkeyDavid]

Hi John
thanks for the link that Clear Vue does look very nice.

Anyone want to buy a 1 hp Griz and a black plastic garbage can lid cyclone?

[Sundance]

That Griz would sell in a heartbeat on the
ol' ebay David.

[bluegrass]

I sold a 3 hp centrifugal fan to a guy a few years ago. He was building his own dust collection system and last I heard the fan had worked great. He bilt a plywood hopper and hooked the fan to it with hardware cloth and a furnace filter in between. He vented the fan out side his shop and ran 3" pvc from all the saws to the hopper. The fan new cost 800.00 though. I never used it and I think he gave me a 100 bucks for it. Over all I would not think he had 3-4 hundred into a really good system.

[BerkeyDavid]

Bluegrass - They did a test in one of my woodworking mags on dust collection last year. One of the models they tested was a regular window fan with a furnace filter duck taped to it.

It actually out performed one of the other models!

Sundance - I never fooled around on Ebay. But I might post it on this site - WoodNet Forum Swap page (http://www.forums.woodnet.net/ubbthreads/postlist.php?Cat=&Board=UBB4&PHPSESSID=)

Although I tried to sell my craftsman radial saw and got no bites.

[BerkeyDavid]

Hi Guys
I was looking at the Clear Vue site, can anyone tell me the difference between the Right Hand and Left hand cyclone?

http://www.clearvuecyclones.com/Order_Page.htm

[bluegrass]

The fan I sold was nothing like household boxfan. Though I do see that that would work. I am talking alot more power, Like the fan that is in your forced air heating system, which would be a good source for a used one if somebody wanted to build a dustcollector. this is what I am talking about. http://www.greenheck.com/products/centrifugal/hvac_duty.php

[BerkeyDavid]

ok, got it. I have spent a lot of time this weekend looking at these systems and I think I will probably go with the Clear VUe

[John F]

There is a picture on the site there somewhere but basically it describes the position of the inlet. Imagine that the cyclone is set up in a corner. If you are standing in front of the cyclone, one inlet design will let the pipe run along and against the left wall and the other design the right wall.

Hmm, guess you don't really need a corner to visualize that.

[Bamaguy]

Penn State Industries has worksheets to help you plan your dust collection requirements. They also have plans that will layout your runs. There are charts that give air flow requirements for all the tools. You can download a copy of their worksheet at: www.psiductwork.com (http://www.psiductwork.com) .

[ekrouse]

The current issue of Fine Woodworking Magazine's Annual "Tool & Shops" (Winter 2006/2007) has an excellent article on "Dust Collection Demystified". They compare standard dust collectors (bags units only) to two-stage cyclones. The cyclones win hands down... better dust elimination; filters stay cleaner longer. Lower power consumption.

While I like the concept of the "Clear Vue" cyclones. The plastic makes me nervous due to static buildup. More importantly, I like the cyclones made by Oneida Air Systems:

http://www.oneida-air.com

They have duct planning resources and product comparisons.