Pressurized feed tanks????

[greenbeekeeping]

Who all uses them. I know Keith does and hope that he will chime in here on how they work. THanks.

Matt

[swarm_trapper]

i know there was a post about this the first part of the year. But i also am interested in this need somthing besides a bucket this year for filling feeders lol. regards Nick

[swarm_trapper]

here is the topic i was looking for hope that the link works. So my question is do you have to refill the tank with air more than once or will one filling get you all the way through the tank full? regards Nick

http://www.beesource.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=12;t=000922

[ December 20, 2006, 05:50 AM: Message edited by: swarm_trapper ]

[Sundance]

I know where you can get a 1000 gallon one
very cheap..........

[Keith Jarrett]

Hey there Matt,
What i use are old propane tanks (free) they are around everywhere. There will be a story on them in a coming B.C. mag.I will have pics in there so it will be easy to follow.
The 5000 gal tank that I use is for bulk delivery(tanker).
The two tanks work on same thoery.
My 500 gal (mobile) tank works as follows;
there are two discharge ports ,two inch and one inch at the bottom of tank. On the top of the tank ,2 & 4 inch cam-loc ports, the air entry top, that is plumed to the bottom of tank so when charging the tank it also is mixing.Air regulator for the right amount of pressure (syrup). At my shop I use my shop air compressor, in the field I use the air from the trucks air brake system, both work well.
Keith

[greenbeekeeping]

I like the idea of your system. The only downside right now is both my friend and I only have small trucks that don't have air brakes. He is looking at a bigger truck though. Right now we are both feeding using Totes like Mannlake sells with a bucket. I have a gear pump that I was planning on using but I really like your setup better and Its a heck of alot cheaper too.

[swarm_trapper]

so keith i take it that you will have to charge the tank more than once in a day of feeding?

[Keith Jarrett]

Swarm_trapper,

At the shop the air compressure is hooked up to the tank with a regulator, the same goes for in the field, but I do let the truck ideal in the field, there is always air pressure in the tanks I run 50 psi, works for me most of the time, sometimes, hot or cold syrup also thick or thin syrup will take more or less pressure. The beauty of this system is that you can change the pressure( air regrulator) to meet your needes one swist of the dail (regulator) and you have the syrup flow that you want.
Many times my ideas dont work, my scrap pile has been winning lately.
Keith

[Keith Jarrett]

Matt,
At home depot ect...
they have small mobile air compressors it does take much air(cfm) to run.
Keith

[swarm_trapper]

so would it work keith to just peresurize the tank at the begingin of the day or would she just run out of juice. the method you have sounds slick but my tuck doesnt have the air brakes so im looking for other options. regards Nick

[Keith Jarrett]

Swarm_trapper Nick,

No, you will loose pressure to fast, any small portable compresser will work gas or 12 volt.
Keith

[Velbert]

you might go to your farm supplier and get you one of those batter operated motors that they have for there 125 gallon sprayers it is designed to keep the pressure up in the sprayer tank.Using your truck battery

[greenbeekeeping]

That sounds interesting Keith. I might have to look into that. Although the truck I am looking at for my friends operation has air so it will work well for him. Thanks for the ideas.

Matt

[swarm_trapper]

hey guys im still thinking about this idea yet just wondering how much air a tank say about 300gal uses to feed could i get by with one of those portabale air tanks like a 20 or 30 gal one?

[George Fergusson]

The beauty of a pressurized feed delivery system is the lack of a need for anything mechanical or electrical in the field. If you have to hook up a compressor to pressurize the feed tank, you might as well just hook up a pump and get on with it. At least that's the way I see it.

To that end, you'd want an air tank with enough capacity to keep the feed tank sufficiently pressurized to force all the feed out at a reasonable speed. There's a mathematical method of figuring this out I'm sure but I don't know what it is. My gut feeling is that a 30 gallon air tank would not hold enough air to completely evacuate a 300 gallon feed tank in a timely manner. Of course it depends on how much air you can force into it.

At pressures that "normal" shop compressors operate at (150 psi or thereabouts) I *think* you'd want a pressure tank roughly 1/2 to 2/3 the size of the feed tank, or a bank of tanks hooked up in series with a combined capacity of roughly 1/2 to 2/3 of the size of the feed tank. I'd probably start out with 1 propane tank (100 pound) and see if that was enough. If not, it would be a simple matter of hooking up more tanks.

[Sundance]

The air compressor required would not have
to put out to many CFM for feed purposes. As
1 cu-ft = 7.48 gallons.

Where does one look for a "cheap" tank?? And
how did you safely cut holes in the the empty
prior to welding? Do you flush them out??

I wonder what the gas company does with out
of date tanks that are beyond re-certification?

[Sundance]

Are "junk" air brake compressors fairly cheap
to pick up???

[George Fergusson]

>And how did you safely cut holes in the the empty
prior to welding? Do you flush them out??

Fill `em with water.

[Spigold]

I find the real beauty of pressurized tanks is the ability to work hives and feed as you go with out having to run the pump motor continuously. Or to avoid running the motor you wait until the end and feed all at once trying to remember which hives needed syrup and how much.

Even if you are in the yard just to feed it makes it much more pleasant you can talk or enjoy the sounds of the beeyard.

[swarm_trapper]

would you have to cut a hole in the 100 lb tanks cant you just hook and air fitting to where the opening is at the top? how many gal of air could a 100lb tank hold? the Adees had a write up on there presurized tanks in the jan bee culture they have a 500gal feed tank with a 100 gal air tank.

[George Fergusson]

>would you have to cut a hole in the 100 lb tanks cant you just hook and air fitting to where the opening is at the top?

I'd think you could use the existing valve.

>how many gal of air could a 100lb tank hold?

A 100 pound propane tank has a volume of about 3.5 cubic feet. There's 7.48 gallons per cubic foot so a 100 pound propane tank should hold about 26 gallons of air. This sounds about right since a 100 pound tank holds approximately 25 gallons of liquid propane, and they don't fill them full but leave some room for expansion.

I don't know at what pressure Adee fills their air tanks but I'm guessing around 150 PSI or about 10 times ambient air pressure of about 15 PSI, on a nice day.

Adee is providing an air reservoir equal to about 1/5th their feed tank volume. Based on that assumption, I'd guess (a lot of guessing going on here) that with your hypothetical 300 gallon feed tank you would want at least 2, maybe 3 100 pound propane tanks.

[swarm_trapper]

yea that is what i was kinda thinking george. i wish i could find a 60 to 100 gal metal tank for air storage. ill call a buddy up that works on semis to see if he can find a used one and see how big they are. Nick

[George Fergusson]

Hey you might be able to find one of them bigger propane tanks- 250 pound tanks are relatively common. You might be able to find a used one.

[swarm_trapper]

i have called all the places around here that sell propane and no one has any tanks one had the 100lb tanks but that was it i was surprized that none had any used ones. i guess keep looking.

[Dan Williamson]

Nick,

Keep trying... I was looking for a 500lb propane tank to cut up and build a hot-dipping tank. It took me a little while but I finally found a place about 20mi from me that had a couple. Some places wanted to charge me to take them because of the steel. Several places told me that their insurance policy prohibited them from offering them due to liability. They were concerned that people would try to reuse them as propane tanks after they had been "decommissioned".

The place I found that gave it to me for free was very rural. They were happy to give it to me when I explained what I was going to use it for.

[NorthALABeeKeep]

I would be concerned with the residue left over from the propane. Propane has a chemical added to it to give it a strong order, mercaptain I believe is how it is spelled. This is some nasty smelling stuff. I work at a chemical plant and we use propane in my unit. When we have to cut or weld on a line or vessel that has had propane in it we steam the line or vessel for a least a day with 75 lb. steam. Even after doing this it still has the smell. Has anyone noticed any smell in the syrup coming out of a tank that once had propane in it? Just a thought