Swinger 100 late 70's

[Sundance]

I am considering a late 70's Swinger
model 100. We won't discuss prices
until next Monday or Tuesday. The
gas motor was gone through a couple
hundred hours ago. Tires 60%, no
visible leaks.

Any idea what an average price on these
is????

Thanks!!

[peggjam]

I don't know what one from the 70's is worth. IMHO they are way over priced to begin with. There are much better types of machinery out there that will do the same job, just about as fast, and at half the cost to even consider any swinger worth buying. I wouldn't mind having one, just not at what they think they are worth.

[Sundance]

I have a Bobcat now and picked up a set
of crazy wheels for it. I need to fabricate
brackets for the wheels though. It has no
mast. And its an old dog that needs a bunch
of work to get up to top notch.

I would much prefer the Swinger. Lighter
to tow, more agile, faster, etc. Plus
the high resale cuts both ways.

I am just hoping for a good deal and would
like to get a handle on the price range for
this unit so I have a jumping off point to
negotiate with.

Google turned up little help...

[peggjam]

New ones run around $30,000, so a 70's is going to be worth between $5000-10,000, depending on the condition. I saw one listed in ABJ for $10,000, I think it was an 80's model though.

[Sundance]

Thanks.... If it is in the $7500 range I
will snap it up and sell of the Bobcat.

[greenbeekeeping]

Swingers are the way to go. I hope to pick one up in the near future myself. I would think with a gas motor it would be in your $7500 range.

[Sundance]

I've only driven one once, and it was
mighty fine compared to my Bobcat.
My Bobcat does not have a mast so it
is even "unruly".

This one looks very nice for its age.

[ December 16, 2006, 05:11 PM: Message edited by: Sundance ]

[swarm_trapper]

i have been talking to swinger reps and other beekeepers that have them and every thing i have heard is buy a swinger. twice as fast as a bobcat. but all of them said stay away from the gas engines, they told me the desiel is much superior. regards Nick

[Sundance]

I can't afford a diesel at this point. :(

My guess is the only downfall of gas would
be low end torque that can be compensated
a bit with higher engine rev's.

Any specific faults with gas Swingers I
should be aware of????

Thanks for the responses!

[Nick Noyes]

You could run it for a few years and then have it repowered to diesel. We had 2 gas powered ones and sold 1, repowered the other then sold it a few years later. I really liked the repowered one and the guy we sold it to seems to like it. If it is in really good shape I would say it might be worth $10,000

[Sundance]

Yeah I saw the repowering option on their
web site. Did you have them do it or do it
yourself??

Its a nice unit for a 79' to be sure.

$5000 for the kit to repower sound spendy.

[Beemaninsa]

Bruce I am not sure, but I think swingers were still about 4500lbs or so. I don't know the model of your bobcat, but they might be close to the same weight.

[Nick Noyes]

We had them repower it. I know of 2 other guys that have bought repowered units and both were happy. It is a good option for down the road if you don't want to spend a bunch of money right now.

[Sundance]

So what are the main advantages of diesel
on a Swinger?

A disadvantage here of course is winter
starting if you use it to move snow or
materials.

Is it mainly low end torque?

[JohnK and Sheri]

Bruce, we have a deisel swinger and have never had any trouble starting it in the winter. Yes, the main disadvantage of the gas would be power but it's not like you are lifting pallets of cement blocks.

We love our swinger. If John is gone I can load or unload a semi, something I wouldn't attempt with a bobcat. Plus bobcats are so much more difficult to get off and on. With the swinger you can jump off to pick up a cover or something in no time.
In addition, if you are moving bees in muddy conditions, common in spring and fall here in WI, the swinger will out-bog the bobcat every time.
As for price, by the time you put the crazy wheel and mast on a bobcat, is it really that much cheaper?
Downside is they ARE freakin' expensive!
James, what machine is half the price and better? We are thinking of upgrading to the new one, looking at the sheet in front of me right now. Fully decked out with the big tires, even the smoker bracket, it is a tad below $25,000. If there is something better and cheaper out there I sure wouldn't mind saving some money.
Sheri

[ December 17, 2006, 06:56 PM: Message edited by: JohnK and Sheri ]

[peggjam]

I use skid steers, like bobcats but not bobcats. I have always used skidsteers, so therefore I don't expericane the problems you folks talk about. I was over on AO's website, it looks like the bigger ones that have a fourteen foot mast are running around $50,000, what are you getting for less than $25,000?

[Sundance]

Good points Sheri and all...

Tomorrow is D day. The upside of them costing
a bunch used is that if I sell in a few years
to upgrade I probably won't get hurt.

If I get it (fingers crossed) then I'll be
selling the Bobcat and crazy wheel set up
on ebay. Never got to mount the wheels as
of yet....

[JohnK and Sheri]

James
AO in MI started out buying the machines from the Swinger manufacturer in Eau Claire WI, just 45 miles down the road from us. AO then did some modifications, (don't ask me?) put the mast on etc, then resold them. I guess Swinger saw a market, so started developing their own masts. In response AO started manufacturing their own machines, so they have split from each other.
We have the 10' mast unit fitted out by AO. The sheet in front of me is from Swinger of Eau Claire, basically the same machine we have, but with their own new mast, it is $24128. for the 10'mast, 12' mast is another $550.
We find the one we have sufficient to do what we need it for, might get the 12' mast next time.
Sheri

[Gregg]

Just my $.02 on this topic (Swinger vs. Bobcat):

Not sure where everyone is getting the idea that the Swinger is "faster" than a Bobcat (I own a Bobcat, model 642B), have never driven a Swinger, but have seen them in operation, and have talked to a retired beek who had both; in his opinion he liked the Swinger better for moving bees in outyards over rough ground, but the Bobcat was much faster for loading a Semi of honey or bees.

From what I know a new diesel Swinger starts around $30,000; a friend of mine bought a new diesel Bobcat a couple of years ago and when all set up with a new mast and fifth wheel came to around $20,000.

I don't think my Bobcat is hard to get into/out of. Sheri, just curious, why wouldn't you attempt to load a semi with a Bobcat?

I really feel both machines will do the job for a migratory beekeeping outfit, it's just a matter of personal preference and what you get used to (if you've driven a Bobcat for 20 years and switch to a Swinger it'll take a lot of getting used to, and vice-versa), and also what you can find (if looking for used) and how much you're willing to spend.

[JohnK and Sheri]

Hi Gregg
Why wouldn't I want to load a semi with the bobcat? ****I DO NOT want to start any fights you guys, lol, so no flames and no mean emails OK? This is my personal opinion and is not meant to denigrate or belittle anyone else's choice of machinery.****
That said, I suspect it is mainly an issue of what I am used to. Tried out a Bobcat, but we bought the Swinger. The controls are familiar to me, plus I really like the side shift forks. I don't think the visability is very good on the Bobcat. Maybe it is because I am not very tall, but it seemed like just too much "stuff" around and in front of me. It felt claustrophobic. Climbing in and out of the thing was of course doable but I thought it was a pain. Much easier in the Swinger.
I don't have to use it on a daily basis so it is important I don't have a huge learning curve when I do. The Swinger drives more like a car, it is intuitive. There IS no learning curve, I drove it the first time I got on it. Of course, the controls are different from a bobcat and if you are used to one, changing to the other would take some learning, and it would be tough if you went back and forth between the two.

As for speed, we have a friend who has always used bobcats and he is always faster loading the semis but not THAT much faster. The difference in speed isn't that big of an issue. It's not like Swingers are slow. I know, I know, that's how you guys are, you think everything is a race. smile.gif Don't know what either of them will do in the 1/4 mile. Wanna meet out back and bet on the winner? The AHPA convention has a forklift rodeo, maybe they should do races too, lol.
BTW, our lifetime Bobcat-driving friend just bought himself 2 new Swingers, he feels as we do that they are unbeatable as an all around beekeeping machine, and in particular outside rough terrain work (like in orchards?). The Swinger goes where a bobcat can't.

Again, I have the literature of Swinger Model 1600 "SuperBee" sitting in front of me, and their printed price list. The total with ballasted flotation tires, 12' mast, is $25293. That does not include taxes, of course, or a trailer, but the unit itself is ready to go.
We bought our present one from AO and it cost us roughly $25000 delivered ready to roll, don't have their current prices in front of me. Sounds like they have a much larger unit, for more $$, but using those price points as a comparison is not apples to apples.
Here is as link to the brochure, but it doesn't have the price sheet. If anyone wants it I can scan the sheet to them.
http://nmc-wollard.com/specsheets/swinger_1600.pdf
Please, again, I am not trying to get anyone in an uproar over how good their bobcats are, again, I think it is what folks are used to. In our case, we much preferred the Swinger.
Sheri

[Sundance]

My Bobcat (721 diesel) was purchased for
$4600 early last spring. It needs a fair
amount of work (new engine seals, axle seals,
and other smaller items) but it drives well
and has been invaluable.

I purchased a crazy wheel set and intended
to install them this winter when the engine
seals, etc are done. It will require some
fabrication at the welder to get the wheels
mounted. (purchased crazy wheel set up for
just short of $500)

I have forks on arms yet and if I kept the
Bobcat I would need a mast. Another $500
easy used. (fork set cost me $650)

The work I'm having done will run me just
short of $1000.

So if my adding is right.... I'll be at
$7600 and still needing tires soon.

The machine I am dealing on is a 1979 and
has the mast, also included is the arms
and bucket for just shy of $10,000. The
motor has about 1000 hours on a rebuild,
and repaint at the time.

I am confident I can sell the Bobcat with
the work done on it for $6500 ++ come spring.
Factor in the mast I don't buy and sell the
crazy wheel setup, and sell the fork set up
as well, and I'm not too far off from the
Swinger purchase.

I've driven both (granted no crazy wheels)
and the Swinger wins hands down. And does
not tear turf up like my Bobcat. But I am
a total rookie...... :D

[peggjam]

Bruce

Is it gas or desiel? Sherri could you scan and send me the price list? I proably won't buy one, but maybe someday.....thanks.

[JohnK and Sheri]

James, I sent you a PM.

So Bruce, did you get your new toy .... er..tool? Sounds like you could pretty much pay for it with the sales of your existing setup.
Sheri

[peggjam]

Sheri

PM box is full, so i'll send you a regular email.

[TaylorL]

Is there a reason swinger is the preferred manufacture of forklifts for beekeepers? Seems like you could pick up a host of other rough terrain forklifts far cheaper than what I see used swingers going for. Pick up an AgSource magazine (agmag.com) when you guys are out here for pollination. Used forklifts all over the place.

[JohnK and Sheri]

I am not sure why they are preferred. Maybe they have just advetised to the industry so are better known. It is meant for uneven rough terrain, which makes it different from most forklifts, plus it is articulated, which makes it manueverable in tight spaces. Oh, and don't forget, they have a smoker bracket built in, lol.
If there is something similar cheaper I want to hear about it.
Sheri

[TaylorL]

Id take a look at www.machinerytrader.com. (http://www.machinerytrader.com.) The articulating feature I see as there biggest draw. If that isn't of extreme importance there's lots used rough terrain lifts out there.

[JohnK and Sheri]

Thanks Taylor
for the links. We will be out in CA in (who's counting?) 6 days, so schedule the nice weather. I will try to find one of the agmags too. The articulating is very important, but maybe there are other machines that do this too?
Sheri

[tecumseh]

not exactly just for beekeepers another site that you may find useful is....... www.tms-sales.com (http://www.tms-sales.com)

[Sundance]

Taylor...... I have yet to see another make
like the Swinger. The link you show comes up
with nothing if you add articulated to the
search.

The thing that sets them apart from what I have
found is mainly the size. The only articulated
loaders I have seen are MONSTERS in the 5000#
capacity or way bigger. This is too big for my
need and will tear up orchards big time.

Like anyone, I would love to find a less costly
articulated loader with a mast, and small payload
capacity (1500# +/-)

[Sundance]

Sheri...... We've reached a tentative deal
which will happen this coming spring. They
need it to unload returning bees from Ca
this early spring. So it is in storage
until then.

One nice thing is that it comes with the
original arms and bucket as well as the
mast that is mounted now.

The bucket will come in very handy for
dirt work and snow moving.

[JohnK and Sheri]

Cool, I know you will love it.
Too bad though that you won't have it this winter for shoveling out the driveway.
Sheri