Mating Nucs

[Beemeister]

I'm going to build some nucs this winter and I'm trying to decide what style to make. I want to go with regular frames that are medium depth rather than the mini nucs, so that the frames are easy to switch around for requeening within my apiary.

I like Tim Arheit's plans for 5 frame nucs www.honeyrunapiaries.com/plans/5nuc.pdf.I (http://www.honeyrunapiaries.com/plans/5nuc.pdf.I) may build a couple of these just to try them. I like the screening on the bottom of this nuc and the option of having the ventilation open or closed.

I also like the idea of using dividers to make nucs in 10 frame 6-5/8" supers. I made 4 nucs out of 2 medium depth supers like this last year. They worked well except that they needed more ventilation in the heat of summer. I had a 1" entrance hole and a 1" screened ventilation hole on each nuc, but I had to move them into the shade to keep them a little cooler to keep them from swarming. I could make a partially screened bottom board similar to what is on Tim Arheit's plans so each section of the nuc could have their ventilation adjusted. Do you find a problem with nucs overheating and swarming when kept in full sun?

In your experiece does it make any difference if the entrances to the nucs are at the bottom, part way up the sides or top entrances?

I'm thinking of rabbeting out the ends of the super so that I have the option of using the whole super, or dividing it in half, thirds, or quarters using removable divider boards. This would give alot of flexibility for one piece of equipment.

The cover I will use will depend somewhat on how I am going to feed these nucs. If I use division board feeders, I can use pieces of 1/2" plywood or OSB for each nuc section and put a 10 frame telescoping cover on top. This is what I did last year and that worked OK. I did have some ants that tried to take up residence in the tiny spaces between the cover and the OSB inner covers. After brushing them off a couple of days in a row, they decided to relocate to a quieter neighborhood. The biggest problem that I see here is that I have to open each nuc everytime I fill the feeders. If a virgin queen is about to go on her mating flight on the only warm, dry day early in the spring, I sure don't want to do anything that might decrease the chance of a successful mating. Also this may cool the nuc down a little on a chilly spring day.

The type of feeder that seems like it would be easiest to use and the least disturbance to the bees would be a mason jar over a screened hole in the inner cover. I am concerned with leakage during a storm around the feeder and between the sections of the inner covers. Once they've had a chance to propolize everything , then maybe this wouldn't be a problem. I could also enclose the feeder jars with a hive body. This is what I've always done on my full sized colonies but the inner covers aren't screened and the bees have access to the hive body surrounding the feeders so they can keep out any little critters here. If the feeder holes are screened on the nucs, I'm concerned about providing a habitat for ants, wax moths, and SHB. I haven't yet seen a SHB here, but I don't want to encourage them. I could also bore a small hole in one of the nucs inner covers to allow their bees to patrol this area. This would give up the advantage of having the bees confined below and having a bee free space in which to fill the feeders.

I would really appreciate any comments, suggestions, and brilliant insights here.

Thanks

Tim

[Michael Bush]

I have five frame nucs with screened holes for a feeder jar in the lids. They work for five frame nucs. My mating nucs are all two medium frames. I have split a ten frame into four of them, a five frame into two of them and an eight frame into three of them.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesnucs.htm
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesqueenrearing.htm

With the two frame nucs I don't feed them. I just give them a full frame of honey. But one could make a lid with a screened hole for a jar to fit in.

[odfrank]

I would think that usually if a nuc swarms, it is telling you that it for a long time has not a been nuc but a hive and should have been much earlier moved into a standard size box.
Because nucs can quickly build up into hive strength, I gave up on my double nucs because they were not always so easy to seperate into individual hives on the same stand.

[tecumseh]

I have a wide variety of mating nucs from babys to divided hive bodies. currently my nuc box building is pretty much defined by my wood scrap pile with 5 frame deeps and illinois depths being two standard sizes that I find most usable.

I also use a mason jar type feed built into the cover (I don't use inner covers here). I do think this limits the amount of interruption to a young hive when feeding. with widely fluctuating temperature here, I find I need to shield the 'boardman' type feeder from the sunlight to prevent 'heat related' evacuation of the contents. a black plastic thow away half gallon plant container works just fine for me. I would suspect that you might have more problems from freezing than from heat????

as to the question of entrance position? I find this makes little difference beyond the nucs ability to clean out their little temporary home themselves. In this regards I have gone back to a more tradional confiqured box since I have found holes placed here and there for entrances typically accumulate a lot of stuff at the bottom of the box that you don't really want to keep around.

good luck...

[Beemeister]

Michael,.....your screened holes for the mason jar feeders...Does the lid sit directly on the screen or does the rim of the lid hold the lid just above the screen? How thick are your covers? The reason I ask is that I wonder if the holes in the lid actually touch the screen it might wick the SS away and cause it to drip excessively in cold weather....This is probably not a problem or even noticed in warm weather since the bees would be cleaning it up... I know unfortunately from experiece that this type of feeder leaks, and in cold weather I probably should just use frames of honey, or if that isn't available, maybe a division board feeder....What I'm really trying to decide here is thickness of the cover and the diameter of the hole. Does it make any difference in your experience if the lid touches the screen or not?

Oliver,... I think that I made my nucs a little on the strong side last year and that and the hot weather/limited ventilation situation may have contributed to their swarming. They preferred my larger bait hives to the smaller nucs. Both are doing fine so far this winter. I'll try to use a little more restraint when I populate my nucs next year. Thanks for your insight.

Tecumseh,...I like your idea of using plastic plant pots to shield the feeder jars from the sun. I have never thought of that.... They could also be painted white to cut down even more on the solar gain.

Thanks for your input on entrance location. I keep thinking that a lower entrance would be easier for the girls to clean out as opposed to draggin' that heavy stuff up to that hole in the side of the hive...It may help to keep that occassional bee from gettin' a little cranky... After all, today's bee on clean-up detail, could bee tomorrows guard bee!... I like to keep my girls happy! :D

Tim

[Michael Bush]

>Michael,.....your screened holes for the mason jar feeders...Does the lid sit directly on the screen or does the rim of the lid hold the lid just above the screen?

The lid is touching the #8 hardware cloth screen. The screen is on the bottom of the hole.

>How thick are your covers?

Thickest, 3/8" plywood. Thinnest 1/4" luan.

>The reason I ask is that I wonder if the holes in the lid actually touch the screen it might wick the SS away and cause it to drip excessively in cold weather....

I have had problems with some leaking but most don't. I hadn't thought of that as a cause. I may have to look at that more closely, but I've done a lot of feeders this way and they work pretty well.

>This is probably not a problem or even noticed in warm weather since the bees would be cleaning it up... I know unfortunately from experiece that this type of feeder leaks, and in cold weather

Yes they do. But that seems to happen mostly due to temperature shifts.

> I probably should just use frames of honey, or if that isn't available, maybe a division board feeder....What I'm really trying to decide here is thickness of the cover and the diameter of the hole.

My diameter is exactly the size that a mason jar lid fits in tightly. I'd have to go find the bit to see what that was, but you can measure a mason jar lid.

> Does it make any difference in your experience if the lid touches the screen or not?

I have not thought about it or noticed a problem from it per se, but as you say, sometimes jars leak, and I had not considered that as a possible contributing factor to leaking. I will try to pay more attention to that.

[tecumseh]

tim my boardman feeder are exposed to the element and we experience low enough temperatures (yep even here in central texas) that the jars can freeze and break (and thereby evacuating the contents all over the top of the hive). so some 'shielding' of the feed is necessary at both ends of temperature extremes to reduce that kind of problems.

I have never used dividers in a standard box but I am told that oil cloth place over the top of the box is almost essential to keep the young queens from going next door and creating other problems.

anyway good luck on your project and merry chirstmas.

[peggjam]

I put a full screen across the bottom of my mating nucs. I am always sure that it is stapled fast to the dividers so that nothing can move between compartments. I also place cloth across the top of each compartment to keep the queens where they belong. I don't monkey with feeding, I prefer, as MB does, to give them a full frame of honey.

[Michael Palmer]

I'm using 4 way mini nucs. Think they're great. The standard hive body is divided the short way with a solid divider. This divider has a frame rest on either side, matching the frame rest on the end walls of the hive body. Mini frames are made by cutting a standard frame in half, and remilling the ends of the top and bottom board...of course, you have to buy 2 extra end bars. Each half of the divided body is further divided, in half, with a movable division board feeder. This gives you 4 nucs in one body. Entrances at bottom so bees can clean out hive refuse.

If one nuc fails to get a queen mated...twice...it is pretty well finished. But, by moving the feeder over, and allowing the other side to have access to all 8 combs, the combs are cleaned up and relaid in. The nuc can be split again by moving the feeder back to the central position. I'm new here...Probably can't send pics here, eh?

One great advantage of this style mating nuc box...you can easily over winter the 4 nucs, even in northern Vermont. I have a 4 way nuc box that someone just sent me to try. Uses standard frames...two frames to a section. I can see how that would be handy for moving frames around, but has anyone here tried to winter the nucs in this configuration? My nuc box, when using 8 combs on each side, has the same cubic inches as a 4 frame nuc. When wintering all 4 nucs...with only 4 mini frames each, has the same volume as the two standard frame mating nuc, but they are more compact. They form a nice cluster...in fact, all four nucs form into one cluster...even with the divider and feeders between them, and winter quite well. I wonder if the bees in the standard frame 4 way nuc box would do the same. Any ideas? These mating nuc boxes, when wintered as 4 ways, are a great way to keep the last round of queens alive through winter, and ready for early spring queens. Take two 4 way stocked over wintered nuc boxes. Remove 6 of the 8 queens. Stack the two boxes on top of each other, leaving one queen on each side of the central divider. Those queens will continue making brood, so your mating nucs will be ready with lots of bees and brood when queen rearing season starts. The 6 queens you removed can be used for requeening weak colonies, or making spring splits.

[Doug Virginia]

why wouldn't you make the 5frame nucs to hold deep frames or are you wanting them smaller just for queen rearing?

[Beemeister]

Hi Doug,

If you're asking me why I'm not using deep frames, it's because last spring I finally switched all my equipment used for brood rearing and honey storage to 6-5/8" supers.I'm gearing-up for beekeeping in my golden years! My back is still in good shape and I hope to keep it that way! smile.gif

After finally getting to all mediums, last summer I decided to try to speed up regression a little and bought 80 frames of honey supercell. They only come in deep size, so now I'm back to having a mix again. :rolleyes:

Tim