Metal Frame Rests

[Beemeister]

Are most people using metal frame rests these days? I've been using the L shaped ones for years now, but I am wondering how useful they really are. Any thoughts?

[BerkeyDavid]

Only place I use them is in my swarm box.

[Jeffzhear]

I had a case of foulbrood this year..., which I believe I got from a neighboring beekeeping friend. I decided to scorch all of my unused boxes, lids, bottom boards, inner covers, and after spending some time reading, it was suggested to remove all metal from the boxes. After taking all of those frame rests out of the boxes <a real chore>, I have decided not to use frame rests at all. I find it pretty easy to evenly space the frames. You destroy the rests getting them out, at least I did, and the expense is not necessary, in my opinion...
Jeff

[sierrabees]

If you use the plain angled rests, ie: the ones that are just there to protect the wood, not to space the frames, they impinge on the top bee space and it doesn't take much denting or bending when you are scraping to change your super from top bee space to bottom bee space. I have not found that they make it any easier to scrape the rabbit joint, in fact they only seem to provide another row of nail heads to catch on hive tools.

[BjornBee]

A couple years ago, someone bought a barn full of bee equipment from an old Root dealer, that closed shop many years back. I bought a couple buckets of various type frame rests for a nickle a set. I used most of the type I preferred. But now that I am out, I do not see the need for them to justifying buying them and taking the time installing them. I do like the 9 frame spacers in the supers, but would never worry about the brood chambers.

In the lifetime of a brood box, how many times do you have all the frames out to the point that you will be scraping the rests? Its not like I do it every year. I could probably scrape the rests twenty or thirty times before any significant damage would happen. And thats about 100 years worth of scraping at the rate I am doing it.

[Michael Bush]

>Are most people using metal frame rests these days?

Not me.

[BULLSEYE BILL]

>in fact they only seem to provide another row of nail heads to catch on hive tools.

If you nail the nails in horizontally that won't happen. The top will be smooth and easy to scrape.

I use nine frame spacers with my Permacomb. Using spacers with PC is almost a necessity if you plan to transport your hives. Since they don't have self spacing endbars they will still swing but will still be spaced after you unload the hives in their new location.

Scraping and cleaning around the spacers is a real pain, but I have made it part of my regimen while extracting. While the frames are out and spinning in the extractor the boxes are scraped clean.

[nsmith1957]

I was planning to use the L shaped rests that raise the frame up 1/8", until MB told me it would just give the SHB a place to hide. Got 50 sets of them, anybody need them? LOL :(

[ December 19, 2006, 09:10 PM: Message edited by: nsmith1957 ]

[danno1800]

I sent you a PM

[tecumseh]

nsmith sezs:
until MB told me it would just give the SHB a place to hide

tecumseh pipes in...
most definitely. and the self spacing metal frames rest is even a better niche for the shb.

[Michael Bush]

If MB is me, I don't remember saying anything about SHB. Although I wonder if we wouldn't be smarter to avoid places they can hide, I've never had any SHB yet, and hope that continues to be the case.

[Joel]

We do not like the metal 9 frame spacers as our it costs us time in losening frames, the frames after time often don't sit quite right on the and we like to have the 10th frame drawn out when we are making comb in the spring to use as fill in or starter frames in other supers.

I do like the metal frame rests as they are much easier to free up frames when carnis and buckfast glue eveything together. We don't install them as every time but I do think they are worth while and will extend equipment life,

[BjornBee]

Not sure if giving up a usefull (how much, I don't know) piece of equipment becuase of a space for SHB is worth it. There is ample opportunity and spaces inside the hive for SHB to hide. Frames too close to the box on one end, the space between the frame bars, etc. Your bees are going to handle SHB or not. Not sure if this elimination of one spot to hide will make a big difference at the end of the day.

Most of the bees that I have seen handle SHB will propolize the buggers into whatever crack or crevice they hide. I don't think they catch them and carry them out as much as they corral them and imprison then into a small space.

In some hives they need no space to hide. They are adapting and have been able to assimulate themselves into the colony by taking on the pheromones of the bees.

I see what people are saying about eliminating spaces they hide. But not sure how practical or effective the whole getting rid of spacers will be. I think we micro-manage the smallest worries sometimes.

Anyone wanting to get rid of them, and would like to help a poor beekeeper out, send them to me. :D (after danno1800 gets his fill ;) )

[ December 22, 2006, 11:41 AM: Message edited by: BjornBee ]

[nsmith1957]

Bee Keeping 101 >> Top/Bottom Bee Space

NS
>I will be using inner cover-telescoping top combination. Will also use double bend frame rests from Kelly which raises the frames up about 1/8" from bottom of rabbet.

MB
The rabbets for use with the raised frame rests will be 3/4". But do you want to create all the 1/8" space for the Small Hive Beetles to hide in?
Michael, my memory don't work very far back in time either. Since, this was back on Sep 10. smile.gif

[Michael Bush]

Thanks for jogging my memory. I must be getting old. It used to be pretty good.

[tecumseh]

bjorn sezs:
Most of the bees that I have seen handle SHB will propolize the buggers into whatever crack or crevice they hide. I don't think they catch them and carry them out as much as they corral them and imprison then into a small space.

tecumseh replies:
yep... if the bees are good propolizers then they simply trap the buggers in and they expire there. seen it a number of time on my supers with 9 frame spacers. so yes I have a number of them myself. if the question was??? would I spend good money and time to install them on new equipment, I would say no. likely will not rip the one's I got out either, or at least not until I get ready to redo boxes and frames. invariable I only see a problem with shb in regards to new hive starts and sparsely populated queen nucs.

[Joel]

{if the bees are good propolizers then they simply trap the buggers in and they expire there.}

Ironically bees have been observed and photographed feeding beetles trapped in such situations.

Bjorn makes a good point relating to beetle hiding places. If they want to hide there's only 100,000 or so cells, cracks and spaces in bottom boards, spaces under end bars and groves in frames for them to hide without metal rests. I doubt they would add much.