lap joints

[joey33]

Are lap joints necessary when making boxes or will good quality deck screws 4" do just fine?

[John F]

I suspect that you are asking whether a box joint or rabbet joint is necessary because you want to build some boxes using a butt joint with screws as fasteners. Whether it is true or not, I will assume that you do not have the equipment to make the box or rabbet types of joints.

Your boxes will become loose over time due to the different material reactions to changes in the environment. If you carry a screwdriver and tighten them down occasionally then this will probably be fine.

You can improve the strength and longevity of the joint by adding glue. A glued butt joint is not very strong though as end grain doesn't well. In a butt joint you are glueing one boards end grain to anothers longitudinal grain.

A rabbet joint adds the other boards longitudinal grain to the glued joint. The problem though is that you still are gluing long grain to end grain; just twice. It has the advantage of exposing the least (for the joints we're discussing) end grain to the environment. (Good to combat rot.)

A box joint is very strong because you are gluing the long grain from each board to the long grain of the other board. This joint is so strong that the only use for fasteners is to hold the pieces while the glue sets.

From discussions that I've read here on beesource here is my take on your question:

If you are not going to be moving the hive bunches and you don't mind the bit of maintenance the butt joint may create, do it and enjoy your hive.

If you are building boxes as a migratory beekeeper and will be hefting and tossing and moving these boxes a bunch, you'll hate it and waste gobs of time doing it this way.

If you are in between the two, your mileage may vary.

I have three hives right now, all topbar. 2 are from BeeWrangler's design and have glued and screwed butt joints. The other is the KTBH like the one at Micheal Bush's site from boards that the neighbor sat on the curb for the trashman. It is butt joints just screwed together as you have described.

I have decided to build 8 frame mediums for an outyard. I will probably use the rabbet joint because it is very easy and I don't have to swap the saw blade.

[magnet-man]

Joey, I have made and purchased boxes, and I would recommend purchasing budget grade boxes from Dadant if money is an issue. The budget grade assembles quickly, is durable and affordable. The raw material to build your own can be just as expensive as purchasing and it takes a lot longer. I make my own screened bottom boards and migratory tops because this is where I can truly save money.

[ May 04, 2006, 06:04 PM: Message edited by: magnet-man ]

[peggjam]

I build my boxes for less money than it costs to ship from Dadants, and I have one close enough that I could drive to it and pick them up.

[Michael Bush]

I have made a lot of boxes with butt joints, exterior glue, and deck screws. They hold up better than regular box joints and nails.

[Ross]

I can't buy the lumber to build them as cheap as I can drive 50 miles and pick them up from Dadant, Paris, Tx. I buy commercials, 50 or more at a time. 50 is the price break point. No tax on hives (ag) and no shipping makes them a deal IMHO.

[John F]

<Michael Bush>
They hold up better than regular box joints and nails.

Good point. If you aren't going to use glue I wouldn't suggest going to all the effort to cut a box joint.