Increasing Smoker Life Expectancy

[George Fergusson]

Though I've only been beekeeping for a year, I know that smokers don't last forever. I know this because I got a used Dadant smoker with some gear I picked up and by the end of the summer the canister had burned through in a few places while the rest of the unit was still as good as the day it was built.

So it sat on the shelf while I periodically thought about how to repair it. A few days ago I took it down and looked it over and it hit me. First I removed the grate from the smoker, then I took a 1# coffee can which was about 1/8" too big to fit, took the bottom out and split it up the side, then cut a notch out for the incoming air tube. It then fit in just fine and expanded to fit very tightly. Then I poked holes in the can bottom, reinserted the grate and shoved the can lid down to the bottom.

Voila! Works like a charm. Just what I always wanted, a spare smoker. When the can burns out I can just rip out the old one and put in another one. This sucker is going to last forever smile.gif

George-

[MichaelW]

When the bellows blows out, get you some duct tape.

http://web.utk.edu/~wu4you/My%204%20Acres/beekeeping/extraction.htm#smoker

[George Fergusson]

Darned straight Michael.

[Sundance]

And don't forget bailing wire..... with wire and duct tape, nothing is impossible. ;)

[Michael Bush]

Just remember the universe is held together by four forces. Bailing wire, duct tape, epoxy glue and super glue.

[SilverFox]

5 forces, Mike, you forgot chewing gum :D .

[mwjohnson]

I learned today that driving over it with a 3/4 ton truck REALLY shortens their life expectancy :(
Mark

[George Fergusson]

As well it should, though I suppose building a crush-proof smoker wouldn't be impossible. I had a stainless steel thermos once that got run over by a dump truck, it survived unscathed. But we're talking tin cans here, it's amazing they last as long as they do... which begs the question:

How long do smokers last?

Sure a lot depends on the model, how much use it sees and whether it's left out in the rain or not, but all things being equal, which they aren't, how long in years? Dog years even?

I've got another almost new smoker same as the one I repaired (didn't buy either of them) and I'm seriously considering retrofitting it with a coffee can liner now, before it burns through.

>Just remember the universe is held together by four forces.

And what is it that makes it go around?

[mwjohnson]

Well George I can't say for sure,but the smoker that I layed to rest today I've been using for the last 3 yrs.
It had been my Dad's,and I think he got it used from another beekeeper(his mentor).I know it's history for the past 28 years or so(it was on a sabbatical during some of that time),however it had to be 30-40 yr's,easy.
The funny thing,I have a REALLY nice stainless steel one with a hook to hang it on the hive that my wife&kid's gave me that sit's on top of a stepback cupboard in our kitchen,I still haven't used it,and it's almost 3 yr's old already.It should last a real long time.
Look's so nice there.
And I got one in a bunch of stuff that I should try to use up first smile.gif

[Michael Bush]

>5 forces, Mike, you forgot chewing gum

Chewing gum is just an inferior substitute. There are only four real forces involved. Someday the Quantum physicists will discover that subatomic particles are held together into matter by one or all of these forces. ;)

[Jim Fischer]

> Someday the Quantum physicists will discover that
> subatomic particles are held together into matter
> by one or all of these forces.

Naw, we physicists already know...

Q: What holds quarks together?

A: Quarkscrews, of course!

[power napper]

Have one old smoker that I got used from an old beekeeper and I have been using it for over twenty years--still good but had to replace the bellows. My larger one is only about fifteen years old. I keep them stored out of the weather and clean out the creosote and ashes regularly. During the summer the smokers sit outside on a window sill out of rains reach. Hopefully they will last another twenty years!

[George Fergusson]

Hrm... all this makes me wonder how old mine was to have burned through. It looks old, but not THAT old.

[GaSteve]

One tip I read on this board is to put a little Armor-All on the bellows every so often. It helps keep it nimble and delays cracking. I suppose some beeswax melted with some vaseline or other oil would work well too.

[ March 31, 2006, 09:18 PM: Message edited by: GaSteve ]

[NW IN Beekeeper]

I as glad to see George's post!

I too put a coffee can liner in my smoker (it fit with the bottom left in the can(luckily)). I did still need to cut out the bottom center for air flow, but it helps keep the burning material off the bottom of the can (suppose this should also help extend the life of it some).

I like using a soup can for smoker materials, I can pull it when I get home and snuff it in water or what ever with subjecting my smoker to water/sand or anything. (I think I saw that Michael Bush had a soup can that had bottom perferations for improved air flow - just to give credit where it's due)

I put a coffee can in my smoker about two weeks ago, its good to see that great minds do think alike (alright maybe I have a good or even just a fair mind - stop snickering and drink your coffee).

Jeff

[honeyman46408]

smile.gif :D :cool: :rolleyes: :confused:

[clintonbemrose]

I purchased my smoker in 1964. It is made from galvinized tin and I still use it today. It even has the original bellows. Every year I use Vasoline/beeswax on it.
Clint

[wayacoyote]

Clint,
I can't imagine they make 'em like that any more... We're in the age of "make it so it breaks. they'll buy another."


As for bubble gum, we took some rapids in an aluminum canoe and suffered a tear. With miles to go, we were getting exhausted from bailing, until my cousin patched the bottom with a big wad of Bubble Yum. Fruity flavor to the rescue!

Waya

[Fernhill]

Someone needs to invent a smoker made of cast iron. It'll last forever and only weighs 40lbs.

Heh Heh.

I'm going to try the coffee can thing. My old one is in bad shape and I might be able to squeeze a few more months out of it.

Mike

[xC0000005]

I've been experimenting with building smokers. I know, not economically efficient when you can get an "antique" one off ebay for $4.00 that will work fine. My actual goal was to see just how simple a structure will still give good solid, controllable smoke output. It turns out that the answer is "it doesn't take much". The big chicken broth cans, cut with a tinsnip, make a really good fire box (with another can cut as an insert to get oxygen to the fire). Bellows is two pieces of OSB with denim stapled around the edges. Fabric thumb and finger loops replace the spring in the bellows, instead of a spout, it has a single hole at an edge opposite the bellows input. Works really well.

Also educated me on why smokers are built the way they are. Most unexpected thing - a well sealed bellows is not necessarily better. The ones that seem to produce the most smoke per squeeze dont' produce a blast of air, just a a solid "puff". I build a sealed "pleather" one that was good only if the goal was baked bees.

Like I said, maybe not economical, but entertaining. I was so pleased with the large can, then my wife put it into perspective.
"You build a fire in a can. Good job." smile.gif

[George Fergusson]

>"You build a fire in a can. Good job."

Hehe.. Nothing like deflating your ego, eh? Well I say to heck with `em, they don't know what they're talking about! I reinvent the wheel all the time and often all I get is a "Oh that's nice dear." smile.gif

[woodchopper]

Glad I saw this thread. Guess I know what I'll be buying when I go shopping this weekend.

[John F]

<George Fergusson>
I reinvent the wheel all the time and often all I get is ...

It isn't that we are reinventing the wheel, it is the flair with which we do it.

Sure, it looks like a fire in a can, but it is a fire in a chicken broth can...

Some people just don't see it.

[MichaelW]

I'm glad I'm not alone in finding entertainment in such things!

If I was to build another smoker, not likely anytime soon, I would use a larger can. Also I would avoid using a traditional smoker top and try and find a metal can that already has a lid that seals, then stick a piece of pipe in it to direct smoke. An old, large tobacco tin would be perfect. Maybe there are some cookie tins out there that would work. My leaky top dosen't really effect performance, but Prince Albert would make a nice looking smoker. I crawled across a pic of a very small one some time back.

[MichaelW]

found it!
http://www.beehive.org.nz/reports/my-little-bee-smoker.htm
I guess it was syrup, not tobbacco.


If you want to even build the can yourself (why?), there are some designs at the bottom of this page.
http://www.echotech.org/network/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=21

[ May 03, 2006, 12:55 PM: Message edited by: MichaelW ]

[xC0000005]

I doubt I'd build the can myself. My quest has been to develop a very low cost, easy to build smoker that you can build from recycled/garbage materials.

I've come up with a bunch of designs, built five of them, and concluded that it's not a trivial problem.

I wanted to get to the point of "You could build this with just scraps and no special hardware", but mounting the bellows is an issue. So is sealing it. Staple guns work really well, but if you have a staple gun, you probably have the money to get a smoker. Triming the edge of the bellows with wood is thus far my best solution for a combination of low tech, low cost. (driving labor up).

The other "optimization" is if you want to mount the bellows straight to the can (no gap) - in this case, you need a separate intake. Instead of a flapper on the intake, put the intake on the ouside of the bellows, under the ouside thumb loop (since my bellows doesn't have springs, you have to have a fabric loop your finges slip into to pull the bellows out again and refill it. When you are pulling, your thumb is not over the intake, allowing the smoker to fill with cool air from outside. Squeezing means your thumb is over the intake, making the air go through the smoker (which it will anyway if your intake hole is smaller than the output).

I like the faucet on the smoker in the picture. I settled on a simple hole punched in the upper rim of the can for simplicities sake.

I tried the line above with my wife - "Yes, but it's fine in a soup can, dear." Sadly, it wasn't any more impressive.

[MichaelW]

"You could build this with just scraps and no special hardware" down to not owning a staple gun is an interesting addition to the design scheme. My smoker cost $0, but I have lots of tools and save stuff that I might use 5 years from now. The copper rivets on mine are probably 30+ years old as my grandfather saved usefull things too.

I would like to see pics of your smokers and think about this. Are you thinking, scraps in the US, or developing countries? I'm going to start looking out for a christmas or cookie tin to use for my next smoker (I'm now inspired). My criteria will be extreme low cost plus ascetics.

[George Fergusson]

I'm toying with building something along the lines of those German pipe smokers. It seems to me that if you want to build a simple cheap smoker, the first you'd want to get rid of is the only "mechanical" moving-parts assembly in a traditional smoker- the bellows. Use your breath. The rest is relatively simple, no?

[MichaelW]

that is till you start putting tobbaco in it for "IPM" and get addicted to nicotine!

[Michael Bush]

>the first you'd want to get rid of is the only "mechanical" moving-parts assembly in a traditional smoker- the bellows. Use your breath. The rest is relatively simple, no?

I thought of that, but I haven't figured out how to get the pipe stem in my mouth with the veil in the way...

[sqkcrk]

I've had the same smoker for about 20 years now. When the bellows really gets worn out I replace it with a new one and when the canister burns through or edoesn't pass the truck test I get a new one of those, too. Otherwise it's the same smoker. I plan on passing it on to my Son someday. So he can keep it going. smile.gif

[George Fergusson]

>I thought of that, but I haven't figured out how to get the pipe stem in my mouth with the veil in the way...

The German beekeeping videos linked on this site show them using them with and without a veil. They've got a small hole in the veil for the pipe stem to fit through. Then it just hangs in their teeth for hands-free operation. Brushy Mountain sells them:

http://www.beeequipment.com/products.asp?pcode=753

Half the time these guys didn't wear a veil. I imagine you could find a way to plug the hole when not in use. I could be wrong but I seem to think the fellow in the videos I mentioned uses Thyme in the pipe.

They have a one-way valve so you don't accidentally inhale (Bill Clinton would have liked that feature).

Worth some thought. I wonder how they're plumbed?

[xC0000005]

>the first you'd want to get rid of is the only "mechanical" moving-parts assembly in a traditional smoker- the bellows. Use your breath. The rest is relatively simple, no?

Yes, it IS simple, but it's not as easy to use. When I was testing if a hole punched in the can lid would actually allow you to direct the smoke, I used a copper tube plumbed into the side. It worked really well but was a pain, and the bees seemed to react more to the smoke. Everything is a trade off. I can make a bellows in minutes if I use a staple gun, but someone might not have a staple gun. I can make an excellent nozzel for the smoke, but that requires special parts.

I did consider a "super smoker" with a flexible hose to direct the smoke. Set it on the ground by the hives, just point the hose where you want smoke. Big fires seem to be easier to keep smoking well.

Then I remember - an "antique" smoker off of ebay costs $8 including shipping, and will work just as well. Still fun.

[MichaelW]

How about one of those foot pumps that blow up air mattresses. Or one built like it. Connect that to a can with a hole in the side for smoke to pour out. More cumbersome, but that much smoke might calm down an AHB hive.