Wiring frames- not for humans

[DANIEL QUINCE]

I am so grateful to the gentlemen who posted the fixture plans for assembling frames. They saved me lots of time. Now is time to wire. I did 2 medium frames. What a pain in the neck! May be part because I have some SS welding wire and is kind of stiff, but the process itself is for the 15th century when they had all winter to do it. What is a risk of NOT wiring the small cell foundation from Dadant if I am using it in wedge medium frames?

[LaRae]

One of the regulars in the bee chat room uses fishing line and makes an 'X' ...he swears by it.

You might pop into chat around 8 or so central and ask for more details!


LaRae

[Michael Bush]

If you put the foundation in just before you put the frames in and if the bees draw it right away you can not wire at all. ESPECIALLY on mediums.

But if you want to wire, if you get a spool holder for the wire and a embedding board and some crimpers and an embedder, it's much more civilized. smile.gif

[amymcg]

It really doesn't take that long if you have the right equipment and get the process down. I can wire a frame in less than a minute.

[George Fergusson]

I agree with Michael and Amy, having the right setup makes all the difference. The first couple of dozen frames I wired I did free-hand and it was tedious, difficult, and frustrating. Since then I've built an embedding board to hold the frame and the wire spool and have learned to work with the wire. I like tuning them, reminds me of stringing a banjo. I enjoy it. For me, the tedious part putting in the grommets which I could probably dispense with and use staples as others have suggested, but I like how they look so much when they're done, I'll stick with grommets. When it's all said and done, I'm proud of my frames and enjoy the whole process.

I've used fishing line. I don't care for it. It stretched too much and is hard to tension and you can't effectively embed it except with a spur embedding wheel, and I like electrically embedding wires- it too is "fun" smile.gif

[tecumseh]

repeat the process 10000 times and it does seem to go a bit more easily. personally the one task that I do not enjoy is putting in the little metal gromets.

there are numerous jigs for wiring frames. what kind are you using and what method is used to tension the frame?

[DANIEL QUINCE]

I am all ears!

[BerkeyDavid]

agree once you get your system down it is not too bad, I enjoy it.

Somebody suggested putting the grommets in with the drill press. It has worked good for me. I take a box of frames over to the drill press, adjust the table so there is barely clearance for the frame and press them in quickly.

I built a little spool holder for the wire with a sheet metal spring to keep it from spooling off the spool and stapled a plastic container to the board to hold the nails. You will think up other ideas that will make it easier.

[Sundance]

Drill press used strictly as a press....... cool idea. Thanks

As for wire.... I popped for Kelly's wire spool holder. Worth the $5 or so.

I made my own jig and backed it with 2 layers or cardboard to build it up for foundation embedding on the same board. Works good.

[PA Pete]

I put in the grommets before building the frames. I have one of those metal grommet tools for inserting them - looks like a 1/4" thick nail with a tip for holding and embedding the grommets - works reasonably well. Brushy Mountain calls it an Eyelet Punch (http://www.brushymountainbeefarm.com/products.asp?pcode=699)

Just be careful to keep the grommets on the outside when you build your frames.

-Pete

[Sundance]

I do the eyelets like PA, before assembly.

[George Fergusson]

Likewise, I install the grommets before assembling the frame.

If you set up a small piece of plywood or luan or something similar (I use a plastic tray) about 12" square or so, and tilt it about 10 degrees or so by propping the back side with a 1" stick, when you dump some grommets on it they roll around and tend orient themselves all in the same direction, lip downhill... makes it a lot simpler to pick them up with the punch, definitely easier than picking one out of a dish or can.

[DANIEL QUINCE]

Just like primers when reloading, George. A feeder will be nice. For now, since I am running out of time, I'm using staples. The frames are already assembled. I'll do up to 30 today (I have 3 packages coming), I'll switch to making traps, paint and add foundation on frames. All I have is about 2 hours when I get back from work. With the wire I have, the battery charger doesn't have enough juice.
Could you specify nail size, wire gauge, grommet size etc? I need to perfect this before I can get back to it.
Thank you
Daniel

[mdotson]

My frame wiring jig has a cam that pushes the frame ends in about 1/8 total (1/16 on each side.) It makes it easy to get the wire tight. In fact, the wire sounds like a guitar when I am done. I installed foundation and wired 20 frames last night, took me maybe 30 minutes tops. That included getting getting everything out and unpacked.

[BULLSEYE BILL]

I've never wired a frame and never will. I view it as old school and un-necessary. I barely keep up making all my other stuff.

[simplyflow]

Maybe dumb questions, but I just had a baby 6 days ago and am not thinking straight yet...I have at least 20 frames to put together and wire before my packages get here. Could someone give a quick description of steps to wire one? I have not assembled any frames yet and just need the basic wiring for dummies explanation. Thanks.

[George Fergusson]

>Just like primers when reloading, George.

Exactly Daniel, I'd forgotten that, it's been 20 years since I did any reloading.

>I view it as old school

Why thank you Bullseye, that's the nicest thing anyone's said to me all day smile.gif

[George Fergusson]

>Could someone give a quick description of steps to wire one?

If you can give birth to a baby, you can wire frames. No problem.

It's pretty straightforward assuming you have the wire, grommets, some 3/4" nails, a hammer, pliers, and a place to work. A wiring board that will hold your frame firmly is a plus. A board with some carefully placed nails to hold your frame in place and either nail it down or clamp it to a table will work. I've wired frames without one and it gets really old really fast.

First put in your grommets. Some folks use staples strategically placed so the wire doesn't cut into the wood works. The wire will cut into the wood along the grain, not across it. When you've wired a couple you'll know where they should go. I don't use `em myself, I like the grommets.

String the wire through the holes being careful not to kink it. I start at the bottom and loop it back and forth working towards the top of the frame. It helps to put nails in the frame before you run the wire, one at each end of the wire, in the edge of the frame, careful not to drive the nail throught the grommet. Wrap one end of the wire around the nail, pound it in, then start pulling the wire tight. I use a pair of round nosed pliers to help tension the wire, it breaks easily if you bend it too sharply. I also like to get mine wires tight enough to really twang. When you've got it tight enough, wrap it around the other nail 3-4 times, pound in the nail, and trim the wires off. I hate sticking myself on the cut ends.

To help tension the wire I've wrapped it around a stick and used it as a lever against the frame. Just when you have it tight enough, it will break. Then you have to cut it back to the opposite hole and drive another nail and use 2 pieces of wire.

Congratulations on the baby smile.gif

George-

[BULLSEYE BILL]

>Why thank you Bullseye, that's the nicest thing anyone's said to me all day

I didn't mean to be offensive. :(

[BerkeyDavid]

Bill: I don't think anyone took it anyway other than as a compliment smile.gif

All: Has anyone ever tried sticking the eyelet punch into a hole in your table so that the grommets would drop onto the punch? THen just pick up your end bar and push it down onto the punch?

I like the drill press press. You just chuck the grommet punch into the press, then press the grommet into the frame.

If it gets tight, turn the press on and hold a piece of sandpaper or emery cloth around the business part of the punch and it will smooth it down good so the grommet won't stick to the punch. That is what gets me when the dag burn thing sticks and you pull the punch out and the grommet comes with it!

I do it pretty much the same way as George. But I use all mediums. When wiring mediums you only need a single nail (assuming you only have two wires). I start wiring at the bottom holes, run it through the top, around the nail, then squeeze the bottom bar while tensioning the wire and wrap the last wire around the nail. drive the nail in the rest of the way. THen I just wiggle the wire about half a dozen times till both pieces break off the nail.

Simply: Congratulations on the new beekeeper! How exciting!

[ March 30, 2006, 07:33 PM: Message edited by: BerkeyDavid ]

[onlygoodSHBisdeadone]

David
I use a hole drilled into my embedding board to hold punch to seat grommets as you describe. Works well.

[thorbue]

If you have a lot of frames, you should have one of these for the eyelets.

http://www.swienty.com/?pid=1&id=103600

Don't know where to buy it in the States

[ March 31, 2006, 01:00 AM: Message edited by: thorbue ]

[George Fergusson]

>I didn't mean to be offensive.

No really Bullseye, I like being called old school and I know you didn't call *me* personally old school, just that wiring frames is old school and well, I wire frames and like it, so there you go! I wasn't the least bit offended. There was a time perhaps when I'd have found it offensive, or at least the insinuation that I was perhaps stupid for doing something the old fashioned way, but these days I actually obtain satisfaction from such activities. I can think of dozens of "old school" activities that I truly cherish.

I think that's one of the things I like about beekeeping. In a lot of ways, it's an activity that hasn't changed much in it's basic procedures in over a hundred years. Much has changed of course, but there is something timeless about standing there with a hive tool in one hand, examining a frame for eggs while smoke from your smoker wafts by on the breeze and the smell of the hive rises up to your face and the bees are going about their business.. time stands still there, for a moment.

Oh gawd, now I got a lump in my throat.

http://www.sweettimeapiary.com/pics/smoker.jpg

George-

[ March 31, 2006, 05:19 AM: Message edited by: George Fergusson ]

[simplyflow]

George
Thanks for the guidance. I think I have a mental picture in my head of what I am supposed to do. Just in case, does anyone have a close-up of a wired frame? Would be appreciated!

Thanks all, for the congrats on the baby beekeeper! As busy as he keeps me, it might take me the entire two weeks to prepare 20 frames!

[George Fergusson]

I haven't got any, but as luck (??) would have it I'm demonstrating wiring frames tommorow at our local beekeeper's association "equipment day" for new bees. I'll try to get some pictures and post them for you.

George-

[Michael Bush]

Just in case, does anyone have a close-up of a wired frame?

http://www.beesource.com/eob/wire_embedder/wire12.htm
http://www.beesource.com/eob/wire_embedder/wire15.htm

From this page:
http://www.beesource.com/eob/wire_embedder/index.htm

[simplyflow]

Thank you so much! I'll be waiting!

[George Fergusson]

Them are better than what I managed to get this morning, but for better or worse, here's my frame wiring setup from today's wiring demonstration:

http://www.sweettimeapiary.com/pics/wiring_bench.jpg

FYI, there weren't too many people interested in wiring, seems like most of them liked the bobby pin approach. Another person there was building frames with glue, no nails or staples....

George-

[DANIEL QUINCE]

My feeling is that if you wire and pretension right, just glue will do the job. Could somebody tell me the wire gage or diameter used for wiring please?

[George Fergusson]

My sense of the matter is that people who think glue is sufficient to hold frames together have never pried old frames out of a heavily propilized box or had the ears split off when trying to separate said frames.

I have complete faith in the glue holding up, it's the wood giving out that I see happening. Repeated wracking and twisting, excessive heat and humidity, the long term effect of gravity on a frame full of honey and brood, these things taken together can tear apart frames with nails in them. I've seen it, granted some of the frames were probably older than I am, but still. A couple of strategically placed nails in a frame could make all the difference. I don't see where wiring is going to do much to help hold the frame together.

George-

[Joel]

"probably older than I am"

yeah right! :D

It's worth it to just buy the wire sold by Dadant or one of the other as it will be hard to find otherwise. We no longer wire frames but I had many enjoyable evenings in my hobby days in the workshop getting it just right. Eyelets are a must IMO as well as nails.

[George Fergusson]

>"probably older than I am"
>
>yeah right!

No Really! OK, possible slight exageration. Some of the combs in those migratory hives I got last summer were said to be 40+ years old and I'm 52.....

Regardless, I've seen perfectly good frames WITH nails that have lost their bottom bars and had their side bars separate from the top bars. Probably weren't glued smile.gif

[simplyflow]

George and Michael
Thanks for the pix and advice. I feel reasonably confident that I can assemble and wire the frames without the bees laughing to hard at the results! :D

[odfrank]

>My feeling is that if you wire and pretension right, just glue will do the job.

Wires have nothing to do with holding frames together. In fact, overly tighted wires can help break frames.

>My sense of the matter is that people who think glue is sufficient to hold frames together have never pried old frames out of a heavily propilized box or had the ears split off when trying to separate said frames.

I have worked other folk's hives where the only thing you can pry out is the topbars.

[wayacoyote]

I like the wire crimper I got for tightening the wires. gets 'em tight!!

I don't wrap the wires around nails. Rather, I pull the wire around to the inside of the endbar and pop it with a 1/4 in staple. Not as strong as a nail, but it works for me and is fast with an electric staple gun. Also, with the end of the wire on the inside of the frame, it is eventually covered in comb and saves me from getting poked.

Waya

[Michael Bush]

The crimped wire spread out the stress better and has more contact with the wax. (a zig zag wire has more length than a straight one)

[Michael Bush]

>overly tighted wires can help break frames.

And warp them.

>I have worked other folk's hives where the only thing you can pry out is the topbars.

Me too. More times than I care to remember.

[comb]

george thank you you old school is where real men live lazy is so new hmmmmm