Hackler Honey Punch

[dharbert]

I am thinking about getting a Hackler Honey Punch. Have any of you used one? If so what is your opinion of the product? Thanks http://www.beesource.com/ubb/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by dharbert (edited January 15, 2003).]

[John Seets]

Dave, I sent and asked Barry to post the info on the punch on this site so people could read about it. I guess there hasn't been enough response for him to do so. I don't think many have a clue as to what this item actually is or have even heard about it.

For those that do not, it is reminiscent of a small hand-held paint roller except that instead of a tube (for holding the paint) there are a bunch of spiked wheels. When it is rolled over a frame of capped honey, it punches holes in the cell cappings thereby allowing the honey to escape during the extraction process.

Its advantages are:
1) Much, much faster than an uncapping knife, <30 seconds per frame.
2) No heat to affect honey flavor (burning honey)as when using a hot knife.
3) Less mess to clean up (cappings) and no cappings to process the honey out of.
4) The bees have less to wax "rebuild" when the supers are replaced on the hive during the next flow whereby they store more honey.

In fact, looking at a frame that was extracted after being punched, it looks like the cappings are still in place. At first, I thought that the punch didn't work and that there was still honey in the cells. However, using a tooth pick to explore the cells, I found that they were empty. Pretty neat.

I personnally like the "fast" part the best.

I haven't used a hot knife since I started using the Permacomb. It is PERFECT for uncapping the plastic. It was designed and works great on any honey comb.

Hope these comments get the ball rolling and that Barry will post the info in the same vein.

Thanx

[dharbert]

John,

I think this is something to check out. My biggest question is after you extract how do the bees handle the comb? Do they have to clean the comb to get it ready to put more honey in or what? Will this work with wax comb as well as PC?

[John Seets]

Dave, it was initially designed for wax comb. I simply found it particularly useful for the PermaComb.
Thanx.

[John Seets]

Sorry, Dave. I'm not sure how to answer your first question. Whenever I finish extracting, I always return the "wet" comb to the bees for cleanup before storage. The only difference I spose would be that the bees have less comb to rebuild before using it again to put honey in as opposed to using the hot knife which cuts more of the comb off.

[dharbert]

I figured that would be the answer but I wanted to ask someone who knew and had used the product. Thanks for your input.

[hollowlog]

Do you have a problem with the spikes clogging up with sticky wax?

[gsalder]

They list 5 models of Honey Punches: 2", 4 1/4", 5 1/8", 6", 8". Would you use the 5 1/8" or 6" Honey Punch for Medium Frames?

[John Seets]

Hallowlog: To avoid the loading, put the punch in an old crockpot with water between frames to clean the wheels. There is a picture of the punch, crockpot and eval if Barry would post the info that I sent him.

Gsalder: I personally use only the 4" on all of the medium frames. Others I've spoken with in the past uncap the majority of their frames with the hot knife and use a 2" punch to get the low areas.

Hope this helps.

[Clayton]

Hi,

I personally use only the 4" on all of the medium frames. Others I've spoken with in the past uncap the majority of their frames with the hot knife and use a 2" punch to get the low areas.

reply:

This sounds good if it doesn't damage the combs as much as the scratchers. I like the idea of the knife and 2" punch. Will the punches stand up to heavy use? 1 to 2 tons a season?

Clay

[John Seets]

Hi, Clayton;

One to two tons a season? Wow, I can only make claim to 1/2 ton per season. In any case, I am using the same punch that I bought many years ago. I have never needed to buy another.

I have never used a scrather even though the inventor of PermaComb recommended using one.

You stated, "...doesn't damage the combs as much as the scratchers". Does this mean that you have used a scratcher on PermaComb? If not, there is no comparison between the hardiness of FULLY DRAWN plastic comb (PermaComb) and fully drawn beeswax comb. If so, I would like to hear details about the damage that occurred.

I noticed that your designation is "moderator". I sent info and pictures about the Hackler Honey Punch to Barry, another moderator asking him to post the info so that those who are intersted in this topic have something to look at and read. He, so far, has declined to post this info. Can you do so? Should I resend the info to you?

Thanx.

[John Seets]

A number of people have contacted me via private e-mail regarding source contact for the Honey Punch. Thought I'd post it here for everyone's convenience:

Contact Clyde Hackler at 360-592-3108 or e-mail: clyde@plastools.com.

Thanx.

[BWrangler]

Hello John and Everyone,

Posting pictures on this site is not an automatic process. The site owner must construct or modify a page using HTML and incorporate the photos.

I have not spoken to the owner concerning this particular instance, but I know that he operates this site as a labor of love supporting it out of his own pocket.

I am sure that no slight was intended but do know that he is very busy now with other priorities, yet he has been able to keep the board in fine shape by working very late hours on it at night.

Thanks for your patience.

Dennis Murrell
Moderator of another forum.

[Michael Bush]

http://www.plastools.com/honey_punch.htm

If you want to see pictures of the hackler honey punch here's their web site.

[Clayton]

Hi,

You stated, "...doesn't damage the combs as much as the scratchers". Does this mean that you have used a scratcher on PermaComb?

reply:

No. I have never used permacomb. I use only wax foundation and mill my own at that so I buy little foundation. I am phasing out all plastic. When I say damage here I was wondering if the punch causes less damage to the cell walls thus saving the bees work. Scratching can dig into the combs more than I like at times especially when in a hurry.

I noticed that your designation is "moderator". I sent info and pictures about the Hackler Honey Punch to Barry, another moderator asking him to post the info so that those who are intersted in this topic have something to look at and read. He, so far, has declined to post this info. Can you do so? Should I resend the info to you?

reply:

Sorry I can't help here. That is up to Barry. I just moderate here for the love of bees and beekeeping to help others. Wish I could help but don't really know Barry's reasons. I'm sure the tool is good and a benifit to others and know that those interested will seek it out. I will probably purchase one at some point.

regards,

Clay

[Ian]

By not taking the capping clean off the top of the cells, I assume you must run your extractors a bit longer to get all the honey out. I notice when inspecting my own frames after extraction, that indented or corner areas which I scratch arn't completely empty. Any of you notice honey left in the comb after extraction when using this device.

Ian

[John Seets]

Ian, this is a correct assumption. When using the punch vs knife, the opening for the honey to escape is smaller and does take a bit longer in the extractor. Extracting when the honey is 90+ degrees is a plus in any case. There shouldn't be any honey left in the cells when using the punch.

Thanx.

[John Seets]

Anyone wishing to see an article and pictures of the honey punch and its use, please contact me via private email. The article is in MS Word format and is ~1.1 meg in size.
Thanx.

[swarm_trapper]

How much longer do you have to extract? do the bees have to rip the capping off when they put more nector in the cells?

[swarm_trapper]

I also forgot what size would you use i do med. and deeps supers Thanx

[John Seets]

Swarmtrapper;

The extended extraction time is directly dependent on the temperature of the honey when extracted. For me, this amounts to ~15 to 20% longer. (Gives me more time to get more frames ready for the next extractor load).

Since I have only medium supers, I can tell you what I use. I keep 2 sizes handy - the 3" and 5 " sizes. The 3 incher is for low areas in the comb or subsurface cappings (PermaComb) and the 5" size when all cappings are on the same level. For full depth honey frames, I'm sure Hackler makes larger sizes. To find you what they are and prices, call him. Also, his website address is on this site somewhere.

Hope this helps.

John

[swarm_trapper]

what do the bees do with he cappings? they still store necter in the cells right

[John Seets]

Yeah, the bees remove the punctured cappings, refill the cells with honey and recap. A no brainer for the bees.

Thanx.

John

[swarm_trapper]

I broke down and bought a honey punch (5 1/8 size) I extracted two deeps and it went okay I learnd to make sure you have hot water to dip it in and I dont just roll lightly I press not hard but firm (it makes a bigger hole) the 2 best things were that there was no mes and It went faster!!!!!!!! http://www.beesource.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

[ikeepbees]

I am very curious about the idea of dipping the punch in hot water - is there any concern about raising the moisture content of the honey? I am very interested in using PC for honey supers and have been thinking about the uncapping process, using the Hackler honey punch, etc. The idea of dipping the punch in hot water sounds good, but what about getting water in the honey?

------------------
Rob Koss

[John Seets]

Rob, I was concerned about this when I first started using one in 75. Give it a good shake between frames and there is no measurable increase of moisture in the honey when comparing honey extracted with a hot knife and using the punch. Use an old crock pot set on high to keep the punch in between frames. Use a small cooking grate between the punch and the bottom of the pot to keep from damaging the punch.
Thanx.
John