FGMO Questions

[Loren]

FGMO sounds great. I've read the threads and the article on the BeeSource site. A few questions:
1)The article mentions that one of the doctor's first experiments was to smear FGMO on the top bars of the frames, so bees brushed against it and then groomed it and the mites off themselves. In my situation this would be much easier than fogging. Could somebody tell me, or is there somewhere I could find out, how much oil to smear on the frames? Just the tops of the frames, or elsewhere in the hive as well?

2) Where can I buy FGMO? Does it have to be mineral oil or will veggie oil work?

3) How do the bees get the oil off of themselves? Knowing how oil is, usually it takes hot water and soap to remove it. I'm worried about bees being weighed down or unable to fly because their wings are oiled or something. If they are able to completely remove the oil by consuming it, do we know for sure that it doesn't hurt them and that it doesn't have any effect on the wax and honey that they produce?

4) I read somewhere (I've been doing a lot of bee reading and it all blurs together after awhile) that menthol supposedly works for tracheal mites in the same way thymol does...so in theory wouldn't a menthol-containing product like Vicks Vapo-Rub have the same results as the double-whammy FGMO and thymol - making the bees messy so they groom, coating the varroa mites' pores, and fumigating the remaining mites?

I apologize if these questions have already been answered elsewhere or are annoyingly ignorant.
Maybe somebody could put up a sticky with the facts, current progress, and some FAQs about FGMO for newbies.

[Russ]

Loren, The oil that you want to use is available from STE OIL CO. Sam <arcps. Texas 512 396 3399 It is called Crystal Plus Oil #70. It is the right viscosity and what Dr. R recommends. The have a web site and you can order online. Do a search on this site for FGMO. There is a lot of info there and don't feel bad asking the questions, others have also.

[Michael Bush]

>1)The article mentions that one of the doctor's first experiments was to smear FGMO on the top bars of the frames, so bees brushed against it and then groomed it and the mites off themselves. In my situation this would be much easier than fogging. Could somebody tell me, or is there somewhere I could find out, how much oil to smear on the frames? Just the tops of the frames, or elsewhere in the hive as well?

You have to be careful with the FGMO liquid. Too much will drown bees and if you get a bunch on the queen and kill her...

I have painted FGMO on the top bars. I didn't know at the time it was from Dr. Rodriguez's research, but it was one of those things that was making the rounds. It seemed to help, but it's only a brief thing before the bees have removed all the FMGO. That's why Dr. Rodriguez came up with the cords. And because the cords took so much labor, that's why he came up with the Fogging. Personally, I went to just fogging until I got my bees regressed to small cell. It seemed to work fine for me.

>2) Where can I buy FGMO?

I buy Mineral Oil Laxative at Walgreens, K-Mar, Wal-Mart, Osco or whatever the local cheap drug store is.

> Does it have to be mineral oil or will veggie oil work?

Vegetable oil goes rancid quickly. Leave some out in a bowl for a week and smell it. It's not terrible smelling but it's stale smelling. It gets worse as time goes on. FGMO is inert and does not go rancid. You COULD use vegetable oil and it WOULD have some of the same effect, but the FGMO is no more expensive really and will not affect the taste of the honey. I would NOT try the vegetable oil in the fogger. It will probably convert it to a flame thrower or clog it up or both.

>3) How do the bees get the oil off of themselves?

There isn't much and they just groom themselves. As long as the oil isn't hurting them, the more they groom the more they knock off the mites.

>Knowing how oil is, usually it takes hot water and soap to remove it. I'm worried about bees being weighed down or unable to fly because their wings are oiled or something.

I have not observed this to be a problem.

>If they are able to completely remove the oil by consuming it, do we know for sure that it doesn't hurt them and that it doesn't have any effect on the wax and honey that they produce?

FGMO is an inert oil. About the only chemical reaction you can get out of it is if you heat it hot enough, you can get it to burn. I has no systemic effect on anything.

According to the assays that Dr Rodriguez has had done there is no detectable amount of FGMO in the wax or the honey. I haven't noticed any ill effects. In fact I've used the fog on a glass observation hive and don't even notice a film of oil on the glass. I think the amount of oil on the bees is very small. You're talking about taking a teaspoon or maybe a tablespoon of FGMO and vaporizing it to very small particles and most of those either come back out or drift off in the wind and it's spread over the entire surface of all the bees and all the comb and all the hive walls. I have not seen any noticeable oil anywhere.

>4) I read somewhere (I've been doing a lot of bee reading and it all blurs together after awhile) that menthol supposedly works for tracheal mites in the same way thymol does...so in theory wouldn't a menthol-containing product like Vick's Vapo-Rub have the same results as the double-whammy FGMO and thymol - making the bees messy so they groom, coating the Varroa mites' pores, and fumigating the remaining mites?

But the Vapo-Rub is MUCH more viscose (thick) and much more likely to cause the bees grooming problems than a VERY thin film of FGMO from the fog or even from contacting the cords.

Daisy is the queen of Vapo-Rub. Vapo-Rub has thymol, eucalyptus, cedar leaf oil, kerosene and menthol (off the top of my head without the ingredients in front of me, so I could have missed something). Probably all of these have some effect on the mites. Daisy was smearing it on a tray and putting it in the bottom and killing lots of mites with it. But I think it's an expensive treatment compared to buying a fogger, some FGMO and some thymol crystals.


[This message has been edited by Michael Bush (edited September 04, 2004).]

[bjerm2]

I use the mineral oil from Walmart about $1.50. It's the kind you us as a laxative. One pint to 25 grams of thymol crystals added. Fogging is easy and quick. This solution lasts me 1 month with 18 hives applied twice a week. During the summer when I have honey supers on I use only mineral oil (FGMO). The biggest expense is the fogger. Go to home depot or some other hardware store and get a propane fogger. Black flag is the one I use.
Good luck. I think if you try it you will like it better than opening the hive and painting it on the frames. The fog goes thru out the whole hive and coats the walls and the bees. The bees groom themselves and the mites get knocked off. The mites that were on the walls get 'stuck' in the coating and suffocate. It will do a better job fogging that painting. http://www.beesource.com/ubb/biggrin.gif
Dan

[This message has been edited by bjerm2 (edited September 10, 2004).]