Is FGMO working?

[Jorge]

Hi all,

I have been using FGMO as my sole way of controlling varooa mites and the numbers I see falling this month on the board under the SBB on 2 of the 3 hives I have are worrying me.

I would like to ask for advice on what to do right now.

This is what I've done so far:
I have treated religiously all 3 hive with weekly fogging (5 to 8 seconds or so of FGMO fog applied through the SBB) and biweekly emulsion soaked cotton cords (~2m per box) following as close as I can think of the recepy indicated by Dr. Pedro Rodriguez).
For about 2 weeks I have been fogging 2 times per week.
My mite counts were only a few mites per week or none until the beginning of September when they increased to an average of about 1 per day. At the beginning of October the counts started to go up to ~9/day. Until then I was still fogging once per week. On Oct 10th I started fogging 2x per week and the numbers of dropped mites doubled. During the last week the numbers have doubled again but during this week I have been fogging every 2 days or so. I suppose the counts should go up as more mites are killed due to more fogging.
However, given that I have been very regular in fogging and refreshing the cotton cords since spring, and given that at this time of the year the queen should be producing much fewer offspring for mites to reproduce, I wonder why the counts are shooting up like that.

One pssible explanation is my more often fogging is increasing the death rate of the mites.
Second possibility, the method is not working. If so, where am I doing something wrong?
Third possibility: this mites are coming from a different place on my bees and droping in my hives (in support of this, I do see more mites toward the entrance side of the board than towards the rear).

Finally, should I now resort to Apistan to endure my bees survival? I hate this option and it may be too late by now here in south-east NY (Westchester County). Any suggestions???

Sorry for the length but I hope this report is useful to others and I hope some can give me a little advice on what to do.

Jorge

[Michael Bush]

I wasn't using FGMO until this year, but the mite populations always seem to explode in the fall and I don't know why. If you decide to use something else, I'd recommend the Oxalic before you use Apistan. I used the Apistan last fall and lost them all anyway.

[Alex Cantacuzene]

I have used the fogger now for about a month. I am not using cords, at least not this year because I started late in the summer and wanted to build up the colony with the least amount of disturbance. So far they did well although we went through a large increase of varroa, robbing and some evidence of wax moth. I check the slide that is coated with oil under the SBB every day and look at the varroa drop. For the last month the numbers of mites were at about 40 in 24 hrs daily!. I fogged every week and started also seeing lighter colored mites. Now the temperatures are slowly dropping into the 40s at night and with it the varroa count is dropping slowly. Is it a natural occurrence or is the fogging working?

[WineMan]

As M.B. said, I too generally see a mite explosion in the August/September timeframe. Natural fall can stay the same for a long period and then one week it sky rockets and expands at an alarming rate going forward. A natural rate of 9 per day wouldnt be much though. Since you are fogging on a schedule it is hard to say what your natural rate is. My prediction is that it could be about 4-6 per day. Once the weather starts turning colder the mite fall drastically slows down as the hive activity slows and the bees cluster tight.

[Juandefuca]

Alex
I will not venture into the increase in mite fall and its causes in the fall months.( This is not something new)
The lighter colored mites are according to reliable sources mites which are immature ,not having progressed to achieve the typical darker brown color .
It COULD be assumed that your bees have a touch of hygienic behavior and open the cells prematurely and removing the immature mites .
Keep on observing and report
Thanks
JDF

[Jorge]

I have been seeing an increasing amount of those light colored mites as well. I haven't looked at them under a microscope so I was unsure about whether these are the cuticle shed after a moult. If they are immature, they really should not even be counted from the stand point of the threat they pose to the hive since these would not contribute new mites.

Jorge

[clintonbemrose]

I have been using FGMO for the past 2 years. Yes I have more mites in the hive in the fall but I believe this may be due to my bees robbing some one elses hives and picking them up that way. I have found that fogging with FGMO weekly seems to handle the situation. If it does not you may be using the wrong FGMO.
I fog weekly and record monthly. Next year I will be trying the new cords on 50 hives for comparison at 3 diferent yards.
Clint


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Clinton Bemrose
just South of Lansing Michigan

[dcross]

Could the increase be due to the drop in brood rearing? Since the mites spend about 80% of their lives in capped brood cells, wouldn't less brood=more mite fall?

[Jorge]

Clint,

I use the FGMO from STD or whatever the name, that has been recommended here and it is labelled as recommended by P. Rodriguez for mite treatment, etc.

Question: what are the "new cords" you mention? Do you not use cords at all and will start using them or do you refer to the thymol addition?

I wonder if fogging twice per week would allow one to do away with the cords altogether? I suspect I will be told that I don't read the previous postings, but I do. The point is that the cords is a pain to add/replace, while fogging is no pain at all even 2x week.

Jorge

[clintonbemrose]

Question: what are the "new cords" you mention? Do you not use cords at all and will start using them or do you refer to the thymol addition?
answer:
I was refering to what Dr.R recomends and not to the laxative FGMO that others are talking about
I do use cords that are changed monthly.
and can't wait to try the new cords with thymol.
I fog once a week for 5 seconds each with the propane fogger.
I use a device called a back saver (email here and ask for a brochure on it.)
enickerson@msn.com
I also made a jig to help slide in the new cords. Using the back saver and the jig I can replace the cords in a hive using 2 deeps in 5 minutes with no help.

I wonder if fogging twice per week would allow one to do away with the cords altogether?
Answer:
I have not tried fogging 2 times a week but I did try not using the cords. Not using the cords is like only doing the job half way.

We do take care of 503 hives of which 3 are experimental and 500 are moved to service polonation contractsin the North during summer and South for the winter.
3 hives are overwintered in Michigan.
Clint

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Clinton Bemrose
just South of Lansing Michigan

[Axtmann]

Clinton
As soon as you start using Thymol as a treatment you can throw your fogger in the garbage.
If it’s warm enough and Thymol starts evaporate the molecules kills mites, Varroa and trachea.
Using Thymol AND the fogger is like shooting a rabbit and than hit him with a hammer to make sure hi is dead.

>>>I have not tried fogging 2 times a week but I did try not using the cords. Not using the cords is like only doing the job half way.<<<<

All I can tell you, not using the right amount Thymol is like only doing the job half way.

[Alex Cantacuzene]

Hi all,
As JuandeFuca asked to report on the progress with FGMO here in Kentucky, the numbers of Varroa on the sliding tray are declining! I still have some other debris that seems to concentrate in some areas and I don't know what is is. I did make and hang a 2l bottle with the sugar/water/vinegar/banana peel mixture near the hive boxes and it filled rapidly with yellow jackets, black flies and some moths. I don't know exactly if they were wax moths but keep my fingers crossed. I am continuing to fog about every four days until the end of the month. After that we will head for Florida with keeping out fingers crossed. A neighbor will keep an eye on them. Wish he would continue to fog though.

[Axtmann]

Go to the following site!
http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/archives/bee-l.html

I don’t trust FGMO!!! If you’re using the fogging treatment with oil it’s your business but I wouldn’t stay on “one leg”. There many negative articles about FGMO, in the beginning it might work but after two or tree years the “time of true” will come. Too many beekeepers lost their colonies. The argument this beekeeper didn’t follow 100% the instructions is not fair. A good working treatment begins with the method of easy using.
Who wants to play with a fogger every 7 days, some beekeeper twice the week, for the whole live???
And if this failed you must have don a mistake with your cord …. It’s your fault not the instructor.
http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/FGMOBeekeeping/

In 2002 lots of “positive articles” but this year. ……Quiet!! I wonder why??

It’s crazy to treat colonies one the week during the whole year and at the end of the year MITES STILL FALLING. There shouldn’t be any mite left after 50 treatments! The brood cycle from the honeybee is 21 days, if the treatment would work with a very low result (60%) you can figure out by your self how long it would take to get rid of ALL mites. The reification is not an excuse, this will be possible maybe on one or two hives but not on the whole bee yard.

And now they find out there other ingredients necessary in the cord to be MORE successful! Some companies have Thymol in there products… this must be a good stuff, ok lets putt some of that GOOD STUFF in the cord and we might have success too! CRAZY!

Instead saying this treatment is not that what beekeepers help, they playing with different methods and using hundreds of beekeepers as test objects. If the tests failed who cares, all testers worked for free and on there one risk. Nobody has the right to complain or will get a refund.

[Juandefuca]

Hi folks .
Personally I will not throw my fogger into the garbage since One can always use it to repel mosquitoes and other critters .
Specially since I modified it and is in wonderful working order . So much for the value item
The usefulness for FGMO ( Parden the use the term for the purists)is to me still unabated . AS I have quoted before : I lost colonies , but not to Varroa as far as I have observed .
I have SEEN colonies with a mass of mites fiesting on the bees and that colony at that time ( Few years back ) was saved . The beekeeper used either Fluvalinate or coumaphose .) After that he began FGMO in all his colonies .
In my apiary I never saw a mite boring into the bees. I hardly detect a mite within the drone cells . I never open worker cells . They are too precious for me . Once I detected a mite on a hind leg of a bee and she took off before I could mess with it .
Irrespective of that . There is mite drop on a daily basis towards the fall but few during the rest of the seaon . EXCEPT in one colony !. Right now I can count 50 plus mites on the catch insert below the sbb on a daily basis . Yet I see no mites on bees ,either do I find evidence of bee demise. This colony however is extremly militant and strong . They find places to invade my face even I cannot find easily .
The use of thynol is for me not on the agenda yet and I see no reason to do so since all works pretty fine at this point of the juncture . To give it point of reference : Exclusive start ;Jan 2000.
Whatever will develop downstream remains to be seen .
Irrespective of all debates , the genetic make up as our researchers endavor to accomplish is most likely the ultimate answer . Same as Apis Cerana does wherever they reside .
In my apiaries ( Two with more than 3 colonies ) are close together including the one with great drop off. I find also no evdence that migration took place since the neighbors do not show the same invasion.
I am not of the opinion that drifting of workers is the major source of invasion but My thinking puts the culprit more on drone movement than workers . Of course Absconding or robbing being the exception .
The demise of colnies here is mainly due to mice/ shrew / yellow jackets/ lousy queens / brood problems/ vectors of mite viruses I other words Not being all time on the ball with "management". Right now I stick with FGMO because it is affordable and I do not contaminate my product . AND I saw NO evidence that it harmed the bees.
Bee happy
JDF
AND ,by the way ,as I said before , about the flying mules syndrome .

[Juandefuca]

Oh yes , I have to add some other thoughts on the multitude of So called miticides ( Remedies ) and the "Believe" that a silver bullet is just around the corner .
Since I became interested in beekeeping rather than "Having" coincided with the Mite problem .
It was a slow learning process since 1995 . I did even know what a mite was nor any other boo boos.
Before that I had one colony for 10 years ( prior to 1988) 7 feet and plus tall because of ordinances of the city I resided at the time . ( One was allowed one colony per household . ( 3 for Medical doctors and 10 for high schools )
You figure .
You just dig into the various sites of bee behavior. I got a whole slew of them in my machine here . All of them profess to be the ultimate experts . Using all kinds of remedies , organic and unorganic. All kinds of management advises . But with all that : The bees still croak and the mites are still there . NO silver bullet anywhere . And FGMO is among them . Why even debating the efficacy ? If it does not work for you skip it and proceed with organo phosphates and other poisons . I am NOT bying your honey .
My deployment of the FGMO is utterly random because of the peculiar situation of my condition . I stick to it because the other "remedies " did not work in the long run , posing just as much bother and are more expensive .
Just for the fun of it : buy the vinegar machine for 500 bucks , a pickup truck and a mg set and see how it turns out . An aquaintance of mine has one sitting in his yard . No takers yet . And THAT was supposed to be the silver bullet also .
Happy Imkering
JDF