Mops Mop Mops

[maggiebee]

Hey Everyone
I took the mans advice and went out to check out the cotton mop situation. I happen to be at Home Depot(Despot) spending my retirement money when behold-- industrial cotton mop heads. While many people stood watching I made a rough count of the strands and decided to purchase one. Once home I frantically tore it apart an counted 120 strands slightly over 36 inches long. The price (w/tax) I paid was $4.00. Doing some high level math that amounts to 3 1/3 cents a cord.That is 5 times cheaper than the cotton rope I found and about 8 times cheaper than the welt cord from an upholsterer. Looks like I'm going to be hooked on mop heads. Thanx to the gentleman for his advice and I hope my little price compare helps someone else. All I need now is the bees to go with all this stuff I have amassed. Hope I can contribute more once I get my bees.

Thanx
Mike Garitta

[Dr. Pedro Rodriguez]

Hello folks.
Way to go brother Mike. Ingenuity and buddy-byddy relations are marvelous. Hopefully one of these days more beekeepers will become believers in FGMO. The system works and the price is the best available.
Best regards.
Dr. Rodriguez

[gpjohns]

Mike,

Your costs for the cords sounds good. I'm going to use 3/4" all cotton rope. I can get it for .10 a foot and that equals 1 yard when it's unwound. I'll try to find some of those industrial mops next time I get near a Home Despot.

Gary J.

[Manuel Jose Gomez]

Hello beekeeper, I have bin here for few months and got registered too this board today. I following all conversations about FMGO and all I can say I worked with metodo from FMGO Papa now long enough an say to all,
Do not longer following this way, do not bring longer all scrap into your bee hives.
Look fore differend kind of metodo an go many ways. Thank to FMGO Papa from here I lost 33 colonies from 41 and not sure last 8 will survive long.

Manuel

[Russ]

Hi All, Dr. Rodriguez I have a question for you. The editor of a bee club that I belong to stated that FGMO is ILLEGIAL. Is this true or is this editor misinformed? I don't see how it could be if it is approved for food service. Dale

[Axtmann]

Hi Russ, I think the editor from your bee club tells you the true. As soon as you use the oil to treat the Varroa it has to be approved from your government. Using the oil in food is ok but using it as a pesticide that’s different.
We have the same regulations.

[Michael Bush]

A lot of treatments fall into the category of having not been approved as a pesticide. I spray soapy water on my potato bugs, but soapy water is not an approved pesticide. It's ok to wash my potatoes though, and if the bugs die, oh well.

FMGO is approved as a food additive. You could put a little in your honey and the government would not consider it tainted in any way. However it is is not approved as a pesticide. As has been pointed out before, however, who is going to enforce this? I can spray FGMO in my hive and if the mites die, oh well.

There are many other substances such as wintergreen oil that are being used. This is more complicated, because small amounts of wintergreen oil are approved as a food additive. However high concentrations are toxic. This is a more complicated leagal issue.

But the bottom line is if there is none in your honey, no one will care. The FGMO studies have shown none in the honey. If you feed wintergreen oil only when there are no supers and you don't extract the brood chamber for honey, then there is none in your honey.

If you were to use the Oxalic acid and the amounts in your honey were within the limits of what normally occurs in honey, no one would notice.

The bigger risk is if you are a commercial beekeeper and someone notifies the government and someone there takes it upon themselves to remedy something. But if you are a small beekeeper, no one will care.

I was informed one day while riding the bus that I had stepped across the white line in the front just as the bus was stopping and that was a federal crime. I don't think you can not do something illegal.

[dharbert]

I once told a man he was doing something illegal. He informed me that illegal was a sick bird. Ha Ha http://www.beesource.com/ubb/smile.gif

[Axtmann]

Well, the question from Russ was, is it illegal or not? What you’re doing that’s beside the point.

[Michael Bush]

Axtman. I am not disagreeing with you.

But there is a distinct difference between something that has been specifically outlawed, and something that simply has not been even considered or approved.

Technically, as you say, anything used as a pesticide needs approval. Even if you use powdered sugar (known to dislodge mites) and a SSB this is not an approved method of mite control. However, you could say you were feeding the bees and the SBB is for ventilation and it would not be illegal to do either one or both unless your purpose was mite control. It is a technicality.

No one has passed a law against FGMO or Oxalic acid or Wintergreen syrup, but they have not been considered or approved as a method of pest control.

[Dr. Pedro Rodriguez]

Hello everyone.
Dale, you are precisely correct. Food Grade Mineral Oil is NOT ilegal. "Misinformed or mistaken are two nice adjectives that you can use to tell your club editor about FGMO.
Best regards.
Dr. Rodriguez

[Dr. Pedro Rodriguez]

Hi to all.
NEGATIVE! Not in the United States! I think at this point it would be advantageous for those who post on this board to check the existing regulations before they expound on
G U E S S I N G games. There are no prohibitions in the United States regarding the use of Food Grade Mineral Oil as an acaricide.
Best regards.
Dr. Rodriguez

[Dr. Pedro Rodriguez]

Hello folks.
I just read a message forwarded to me by a fellow beekeeper regarding FGMO and its origin. It seems to me that should make a statement regarding some of the contents of that messsage.
Ever since I began working with FGMO, I posted my findings on Bee-L and subsequently on beesource.com, with the sole purpose in mind to donate my discovery to beekeepers world-wide in particular and to humanity in general. I always have said clearly that I did not wish to gain anything from my discovery and I stil hold strongly to that effect. Secondly, I made a presentation at an ABF Meeting in Nofolk, Virginia and spoke about my work. There were beekeepers from a wide geographical area in attendance at my presentation and although I spoke with many of them, there were no advice or offerings forthcoming from anyone regarding any form of application of FGMO.
I sadly remember that duing the ensuing months, an unfair exhange of opinions took place on the internet regarding the value and quality of my work and labeling me as uncientific. I apologized publicly then and I apologize again at this time if in any way I may have offended those with whom I corresponded, The altercation came out of my defense for what I knew was an efficient, cost effective scientifically sound alternate method for treatment of honey bee parasitic mites.
I remember well that a graduate student at the University of Montana wrote and indicated that my use of FGMO was not original because it had been tried else where to combat plant parasites. I was not aware of that fact and I replied to that student praising his research abilities and thanking him for making the information available to me. I didn't even bother to look up the reference it did not apply to honey bees.
All my findings have been posted on the internet and I have all the files that have been sent to me or that I have sent to any one or any place since day one As a logistics officer in the U S Army I learned that well keept records pay for the effort sooner or later. I am sure that my FGMO files that I have so proudly kept may come handy some day. I sincerely hope that I may not have to prove any one wrong. That was not my intention for keeping them and it remains so.
In one of this files is information that I published indicating that I had discovered the Burgess Propane Insect Fogger per chance while shopping for garden supplies at one of the major hardware stores in my area of Virginia Beach, VA. I read the label on the machine and the instructions read that this machine was intended to be used solely with the insecticide provided. I risked losing the purchase price and bought one to ry spraying FGMO with it. I tried out in the garage of my home with pure food grade mineral oil and it worked perfectly well. I have been using the same fogger ever since. My point for this explanation is that NO ONE ever mentioned
the use of the Burgess Propane Insect Fogger to me or made any suggestions regarding the use of it for my research. The Burgess Propane or Electtric Insect Fogger was never mentioned
at any locale or in any correspondence sent to me. Whether right or wrong I was the very first to ever publish information about using this fogger for the purpose of spraying FGMO for the treatment of parasitic honey bee mites.
I was severely chastised by some in the scientific community for my unorthox research methods. I paid my price for being naive, and I apologized for my angry reaction. I continued my work spending a large sum of my retirement pay in an effort to find better ways to treat honey bee parasitic mites. I honestly believe that I have done so and sincerely wish that FGMO continues to show its potential as sought by me during all these years.
I welcome criticism regarding my work because hopefully it may assist me in improving my methods which in the end will continue to benefit beekeeping and humanity as earlier stated. However, it is saddening to see that now that FGMO seems to be gaining acceptance by a larger number of beekeepers world-wide, not only do I continue to be denied recognition for my contribution but find others attempting to take away the originality of my work.
I stand proud of having developed a method that may contribute to at least control the spread of one of our most important plagues in the history of beekeeping. No one can take away from me the joy of having done so.
Best regards to all.
Dr. Rodriguez

[Juandefuca]

Hi to all
I find it rather sad in light what Dr Rodriguez accomplished over the years to stand there and explains or apologizes for what ?
Certainly I have not followed any comment or discussions on various forums since I always felt that most comments are nothing but spinning of wheels and have no contributing factors . Plus the fact how much time one has to diddle around with hair splittings .
And that includes most likely some of mine .
The history of my knowledge of the FGMO saga goes back to 1995 with the advent of owning a computer and the wonderful source of information on the internet . The only written material I have is a copy of a 1910 ABC/XYZ and the issues of Bee Culture of several years . Not till 1999 did I finally saw the light on the horizon by DR R's with the introduction of the fogging device and the emulsion formula .
I did not apply the previous methods of application because it occurred to me a more os less cumbersome method of application , the same as other methods .
Certainly there is further study warranted , but in the meantime until such change takes place , the present application mode is quite acceptable .
The bottom line for me is MY OBSERVATION , having used chemical , acid and essential oil applications that the FGMO application has AT least the same effects , if not much better, and does have no adverse effect on merchandise or the colony.
To all those how bikker around , bring me proof that the method does NOT work.
If anyone is under the impression or wishful thinking that any method will bring the demise of mites expects donkeys will fly.
As long as your neighborhood has mites , so will have you.
The only other method of hope to tackle the problem is already at hand by genetic breeding, etc but will take some time to take effect universally. That includes Small cell size also .
In the meantime you have nothing to loose by using FGMO .
Happy mite reduction
JDF

[Juandefuca]

this is not so much a reply to myself but another thought of "Illegality".
When I was youngster back where I was born , we planted so called "Dicke Bohnen " ( Big fat beans ) which had the habit of being infested by aphis to the highest degree imaginable . I think that those beans were meant to be feeding aphis . Father used tabacco dust to treat the aphis to their demise and I wonder whether that was legal or not . Another member mentioned soapy water , whether approved or not I feel no guilt whatoever to use it even if it would be deemed illegal because it is the most effective means to treat aphis ,mealybugs , white flies and maybe many more breathing via spiracles such as killing bees provided one uses the right proportions ( 3 table spoons ??????to 1 Gal water , about 4 liters)
May be it is time for some beekeepers to use what works and not what a burocrat "feels" or "Believes " Should be legal because some entity funded a specific "research ". next thing I hear would be that small cellsizes are illegal . What next ?
happy beeing
JDF

[mark williams]

TO J.D.F-------amen

[Dr. Pedro Rodriguez]

My hat will always be off to you brother Helmut and why not, to all beekeepers.
Thank you so much.
Dr. R.

[Barry]

Manuel Jose Gomez -

You have made a concerted effort on this forum to clearly point out that FGMO has not at all worked for you. I think we understand this much now. What we need now is for you to substantiate your claim if any of us are to take you seriously. Give us specifics so we may try to better understand your situation.

What oil did you use? Did you use emulsion cords? How many and how often? How often did you fog? What technique did you use? Did you monitor the mites in any way? Did your hives all collapse at once or did they die off slowly? How are other hives in your area doing? What are they treating with?

It's time to step up to the plate.

Regards,
Barry

[dickm]

Dr.R,

Here's the state of officialdom in the US. We had Mark Feldlaufer, Research Leader of the USDA Research Lab in Beltsville, MD ...give us a talk.
He said a number of interesting things. Scorching the hives won't kill AFB; Russian bees at he Baton Rouge lab show great promise; I'ts probably not worth chasing the AFB with drugs once you have it; There are 2 newer treatments for AFB already in the usda approval pipeline for 3 years; these new antibiotics CAN be used now if supervised by (of all people)a veternarian!; commercial beekeepers WANT A CHEMICAL!; Menthol works for mites.
He thought there was no evidence for other essential oils. (No good research).
When I asked about FMGO he didn't seem to know what I was talking about. I asked if he had read your paper Dr Rodriguez, he looked a little lost and said, "I guess I haven't." I was going to send it to him but you could do that better. He's at feldlaum@ba.ars.usda.gov .
I wanted to scream: WHY DON'T YOU KNOW, IF I DO! Why don't you study the easy things before the genome of the honey bee.
He did say that the current administration reversed it's order to close 3 of the 4 bee labs in the US simply because beekeepers wrote in and challanged the idea. Commercial keepers have clout, apparently. I wonder if it would shake him up if his box overflowed with FMGO people writing in to HIM.
How many people now us FMGO exclusively? Of those, how many keep at least 1 untreated control hive? How can he listen if we don't give him that kind of data?
Forgive my rant.

Dickm

[dickm]

I forgot to mention clearly... you can use just about anything if a vet OK's it. It's a technicality in the law to cover experimental work.

Dickm

[Admin]

Rerouting this message to the appropriate forum. - Admin

------
Hello Dick.
I hear what you are saying and I take my hat off to you.
BUT, do not hink for a moment that they don't know about FGMO. It has been around for 8 years. They all know about it but they refuse to acknowledge it because FGMO does not "provide pay checks for people who work with it." It is as simple as that. The big grants are for people who work with pesticieds.
And let me tell another thing, reseasrchers have found that thymol works. Yes, it works but only if diluted with 50 % FGMO. AND, what they are not saying is how much, or how big an influence of the results of thymol is due to FGMO. They wont go into that because if they did they would have to admit that FGMO in fact works.
Your idea of flooding his mail box with mail sounds good, but there is nothing to stop him from deleting!!!! I think that since he is not interested in FGMO, he will delete. The thing to do is to direct him to visit www.beesource.com.FGMO/pov/rodriguez/bb. (http://www.beesource.com.FGMO/pov/rodriguez/bb.)
Most likely he is well aware of that but hereafter he wont be able to deny that he knows about FGMO. Go for it and let him have both barrels. He deserves it.
Believe me, there is no research center, including ARS, that does not know about FGMO. It is not of their interest to push it. They wnat to work with established money makers that will gurantee the continuance of theirmonthly pay check.
This is a mouthful in a short essay but beekeepers have to make themselves known and speak their minds about what they want. I havew been around for a lifetime and those big wigs don't listens to me.

An added thought" I have always opposed the use of any kind of antibiotic against AFB. It just simply makes the strains resistant to it and the hives will have it for ever within. The best medicine, don't use antibiotics. Allow the bees to take of their hygiene, and they will. They always have, or else they would not be around.
Have a wonderful day, and thanks for your trust in FGMO.
Pedro

[Keith Benson]

I forgot to mention clearly... you can use just about anything if a vet OK's it. It's a technicality in the law to cover experimental work.
Dickm

Reply:

This is not strictly the case. A veterinarian can use drugs/substances "off-label" provided A) there is no preparation of the same substance approved for said condition in said species and B) there is reason to believe it will work in the particular clinical setting. Vets are supposed to disclose all "off-label" usage to the client and some even have wavers signed.

This allows veterinarians to use a wide variety of drugs to treat conditions where there are no approved meds in a particular species. For example: I can give a hippo Ciprofloxacin, though Cipro is clearly not labeled for hippos, nor will it ever be. I merely have to tell the hippo’s owner that this is the case, and show that I have a reasonable clinical suspicion that the drug will work and is reasonably safe. It also saves drug companies from paying huge fees to license meds in a wide variety of species (hundreds of thousands of dollars per preparation per species).

And lastly – this technicality allows vets to OK the use of FGMO to treat bees, which in my opinion is really a moot point. The stuff is OK for use in food, which should eliminate liability on the part of the beekeeper and the vet. Also, it has been shown not to contaminate honey.

I suspect that were you to ask a vet they would plead ignorance (most US vets know zilch about insects - except how to kill them) and would refuse to participate.

At some point someone (in the government) will likely need to address FGMO in a regulatory fashion (all animal treatments are to some degree), once it is accepted as a common practice, but since such regs concern food safety, (and Dr. R has done laboratory analysis to show that honey is not contaminated) I suspect it will not be a big deal. Someone might get their knickers in a twist about aerosolizing mineral oil, but at the worst they would likely simply recommend a mask for protection.

Keith


[This message has been edited by kgbenson (edited February 23, 2003).]

[This message has been edited by kgbenson (edited February 23, 2003).]

[Juandefuca]

Hi dick
You quoted Mr Feldlaum quoting that scorching hive bodies does not kill AFB. .Well I did at one time and no AFB occured thereafter . Another source of info by research persons quoting a 10 min exposure at 160 Deg C will kill the spores . Another source treats his hardware by exposing it to 300 deg F in a wax melter for an unspecified time to kill the spores . It appears then that the jury is still out on that in certain quarters .
Naturally if one does the torching it depends on HOW one does it. Another source recommended an exposure of 1000 Deg F , which a propane torch will deliver . How long it was not said . So, here you are , take your pick . May be some day somebody gives us some valid information on that.
Happy beeing
JDF
Thanks for the good post !!!!!!!

[dickm]

As an addendum. A beekeeper friend told me of sticking a frame of badly infected foulbrood down into the center of one of his strongest hives. They cleaned it up and were fine.
By the way Mass. and (I think) Fla have radiation available to sterilize infected equipment. Ct makes you burn it. For a cost of 7.50 a one-story hive, a Mass facility will sterilize it for you.

Dickm

[Jorge]

Dickm,

What/Who is Mass? How and where do you contact it/them/him/her? What radiation is used, how and where?

Thanks

jorge

[Keith Benson]

Mass = the state of Massachussetts. I cannot recall the facilites name (been away for a long time) but they will irradiate hives and sterilize equiptment. Local bkeeping associations should know.

Keith