View Full Version : Kiwi Beekeeper
10-08-2002, 08:28 PM
Hi guys,I have enjoyed the info posted on this site and decided to say G'Day.
About 2 yrs ago when Veroa was imported into this country, bee keepers in my area were told it would take about 5 yrs before it would reach us here in the far north.
Well it's arrived 3 yrs ahead of schedual and it's just down the road.(about 5kms)
I have read as much as I could find by Dr. Pedro Rodriguez and I have decided to use FGMO as my treatment of choice.
My Burgess Fogger had to be imported from the States and it arrived the other day,I have located a good supply of cotton cord and have 4 ltrs of pharmaceutical grade white oil (parafin oil) with a density of .83 in the shed.
My biggest problem is locating the tall 14.1 oz gas cartridge to fit the fogger.All that's available in NZ are the shorter 16 oz lantern cartridges.This size is not recommended by Burgess.
Can you use these shorter cylinders?.
Is there any other sucessful way of powering the fogger? An LPG (propane) barbecue cylinder could be possiblity, what do youu think?
I beleave the fogger has a Coleman fitting,but I could be wrong..
With out a source of propane my fogger will be unusable and the veroa will have their way in my hives........aarrrrggggggg!
I'm in real need of solid advice and hope one of you experienced in FGMO and fogging can steer me in the right dirrection.
Thanks in advance......
[This message has been edited by kimberjim (edited October 10, 2002).]
10-09-2002, 06:38 AM
I don't have a fogger, but I have used lantern cylinders and the long ones interchangably on stoves and blow torches without any problem. If it fits I'd use it. Also, it is possible (but illegal to transport afterwards, here in the USA) to refill the cylinders with a refill kit and a small bottle. You have to tip the bottle upside down so you are getting liquid and you you have a hookup that runs from the bottle outlet to the small cylinder and you use the bleeder valve to let the liquid propane into the cylinder by bleeding out the gaseous propane. Make sure you have a way to open the bleeder valve without getting the liquid on your hands when it's full or you'll freeze burn your hand. The bleeder looks kind of like the valve stem on a car tire and is next to the screw fitting on the top of the bottle.
Hi KimberJim, You ask about using a bbq propane bottle to power your fogger. I have cut the top out of the small propane bottles and grind off the excess metal and then weld (braze) the fitting onto a 1/4" pipe nipple. This will give you something to hook up to the larger bottle by using a good rubber hose that will stand 200# PSI. Also I have refilled the small bottles using the method that Micheal mentioned but I immersed the bottle in Ice Water. When you do this you are lowering the pressure in the small bottle as Propane pressure is 2lbs. Per Deg. F.By using the Ice water you are lowering the pressure in the small bottle allowing the liquid propane to flow from the larger bottle into the smaller bottle. DON'T go off and leave it, You have to keep checking to see how much propane is in the bottle. You don't need a full bottle to run the fogger as it doesn't use much fuel. Just refill your bottle more often. Ask if you have questions. Dale
KimberJim, Another option is to buy one of the adaptors that is sold here in the states to refill the small bottles. Again DON'T over fill the bottles. Stay on the safe side. Dale
10-10-2002, 01:34 PM
Thanks for the replies fellas..I know a guy who can supply me with a small empty Coleman cartridge and will fit the threaded portion to a brass nipple just as you suggested Dale.I will then fit this via a suitable hose to a small BBQ LPG bottle and see what happens. I'll also get in a few full lantern cartridges and see how they work in the fogger.
I like the idea of refilling those,it would be a very cost effective alternative.
BTW...where can I get the filling adapter from State Side?I would be surprised if they were available here.
Thats the only trouble with living Down Under,we don't have the population base to warrant dealers importing all these interesting "goodies" from the US. http://www.beesource.com/ubb/smile.gif
If you guys are outside Saturday nite and see a faint glow on the Western horizon, dont worry, its just me firing up my fogger.......
Dr. Pedro Rodriguez
10-10-2002, 01:51 PM
Hello out there in FGMO lands!!! Happy beekeeping with chemical free miticieds.
I will reply to several posts in one, The reason for this is that all of them have arrived at the same time, hence I have read all before replying.
I have brass fittings for the Burgess fogger. I ordered them from an outfit in the USA through a camping manager. I use the fogger with a large propane bottle here in Spain. All that I had to do was to remove the bvlave from the adapter and add a piece of appropriate rubber hose. It works like a charm. I mailed one of these attachments to Bob Russell in New Zealand. Hew should be able to give you imput about how he is doing with it. Well I hope, although I have not told him about removing the valve in the adapter! I'll have to write and ask him. For those in New Zealand and Europe using the Burgess fogger who might want to try using larger propane bottles, and wishing to purchase the attachment (brass fitting ) for the Burgess fogger, please let me know. I can ship one for $5.00 plus shipping. Please be reminded that I do not make any profit from this whatsoever. I do not want to be accused of making a profit with FGMO supplies as some have implied.
10-10-2002, 02:58 PM
Hello Dr. Rodriguez,thanks for your reply to my questions.I think the fitting you have offered us will be the answer.
I have sent you an email in reguards to this.
Dr. Pedro Rodriguez
10-10-2002, 04:16 PM
Thank you Jim and to all of you who are putting your faith, trust and money to treat your bees with FGMO. The bees, nature, and I appreciate your efforts.
kimberjim, I think the only problem that I can think of with using the larger dia. (Lantern) & shorter bottles is you would have to watch and hold the fogger level, If you didn't you could get liquid propane to the burner. (A Big NO NO) The taller bottles tend to keep the liquid away from the outlet. Remember to invert the bottle that you are filling out of so you get liquid propane in the bottle that you filling. Post other questions and I am sure someone will have answers. Dale
I have had a fogger for many years to spray for mosquitos. We affectionately refer to them as our "State Bird" her in Florida! I have also used BOTH types of disposable bottles with good results. I have also purchased, from Harborfreight.com, an adapter to allow you to refill the smaller bottles from a 20 pound bottle (or larger). Seems like the cost was under $10 and it is very simple to use. Just join the two bottles and crack the valve......
hope this is helpful.
Dr. Pedro Rodriguez
11-12-2002, 10:27 AM
Hello im in NZ and all the other FGMO folks elsewhere.
Jim you should have received the adapter that I mailed to you by now. If not, it will arrive soon.
I have used , both types of propane bottles, the long and the short type. No difference. Just keep any one of the two level to keep the fogger from igniting.
Just be careful fellows and ladies out there. We do not want anyone to get hurt while trying out one of the safest gadgets we have to get rid of the troublesome mites.
AND Jim, I have not seen a glow out on the horizon yet, so I suppose that you are doing okay with your fogger.
11-19-2002, 10:39 PM
Well I have received my brass adapter from Pedro and it has solved my propane hassels.Now all I have to do is hook the fogger up to a small BBQ bottle and we are good to go.
I did however, have to remove the small reducer valve from the back of the fogger before it would operate as it should.Doing this enables the lower presssured BBQ bottle to deliver enough gas for the fogger to function correctly.
Thanks again Dr Rodriguez,I realy appreciate you effort.
BTW..my check for the brass fitting is in the mail........ http://www.beesource.com/ubb/smile.gif
Dr. Pedro Rodriguez
11-20-2002, 10:13 AM
Hello Jim (and all other beekeepers). Way to go!
Hey Jim, since I had not heard from you I have had a long vigil over the horizon lookig for that glow. Fortunately, I see that it did not happen. he he he
Jim: I think that a lot of people would be interested in knowing how to remove the reducer valve in back of the fogger. Could you please post a a bit of information on the forum about how to do it? I am sure a lot of people will appreciate your expertise.
I am glad that I could help. Lets keep FGMO working towards getting rid of the pesky mites. It will not be overnight (because of the constant contamination from hives that are not treated with FGMO) but it will surely give FGMO users a weapon to be proud of. Good luck to you all and best regards.
11-21-2002, 12:34 AM
Hi Pedro,I hope things are well with you.
Anyway,the fogger is going really well with the adapter and I am very impressed with it's performance. Hopefuly the mites will be on the back foot from now on.
I will be fogging on a weekly basis as the Veroa Mite is quite new here and a lot of bee keepers are being caught with their guard down. Because of this, the constant re-contamination of treated hives by those that are failing is a very real problem. One guy here lost 60 hives in a matter of weeks. We are in the critical stage at the moment and have been told it will take 4 or 5 years before things start to level out.
As I mentioned in an earlier post, I had to remove a small "gizmo" from my fogger to enable the brass adapter and a small 1.5kg (3lb)LPG bottle to work correctly.
Here's what I did:
Place the fogger on a table with the rear of the unit facing you. The fuel shutoff valve will be on your RHS and you should now be looking at the threaded portion the gas bottle screws on to.
Inside this is a reducer valve that has a
small hole in it's center and is plainly seen.
(I believe it is to reduce the gas flow from the disposable cylinder to the burner.)
You will need a small socket to remove this "gizmo".I found the rascal needed a bit of muscle to get it to move...but it will turn and it will unscrew.
Once this is removed, the "Rodriguez Adapter" will screw on alot easier than before and the fogging unit will light easily and continue to burn consistently.
I don't profess to be a gas expert but this mod works well and as I havent blown my self into the middle of next week, I consider it to be a success... http://www.beesource.com/ubb/smile.gif
[This message has been edited by kimberjim (edited November 21, 2002).]
Dr. Pedro Rodriguez
11-21-2002, 01:41 PM
Hello Jim and other beekeepers world-wide.
Way to go Jim. As I posted on an earlier memo to the forum, I strongly recommend fogging once a week to get rid of the infestation brought home from weak dieing hives.
Some beekeepers may claim that fogging "too often" is expensive. Not really! Once you get the hang of it, one can treat hundreds of hives inside an hour. At 10 hives per minute, potentially 600 hives per hour! If it saves your hives, as we have demonstrated this year in my research group and produced 70 kilos of honey per hive, AND not lose any hives at all, that should be the most economic procedure in the market anywhere for anyone. Trust me guys, you'll like the numbers in your ledger when you start adding it up. With FGMO fogging once a week, mite counts drop drastically because the "new arrivals" are taken down before the majority of them have a chance to migrate to the breeding cells to reproduce. Granted, some of them will get there because your bees will be bringing new mites to the hive every day. The pay off comes when the mites developed in your hives do not get a chance to reproduce because they are bound to be taken out with your progressive fogging. Secondly, most foraging bees will be "coated" with a minute film of FGMO that will difficult mites adherence to them, hence will reduce the incidence of mites that are picked up by robbing bees. Too good to be true?
Well, that has been FGMO trajectory. But, hard work and consistency have proven that it is indeed an effective and economic way to treat honey bees against the terrible mites.
Jim, thanks for your description of the procedure you used to make the fogger adaptable for use with any kind of propane bottle. If you remember, I told you that I was using the adapter and that it was working as a charm for me. I am glad that there is some one else who can vouch for my success if it works for them as it is doing for me. Go for it, beekeepers. As Paul Harvey would say, "Page two.!"
Dr. Tell us more about this adaptor!!!! What is it and what does it do to improve the operation of the fogger. Dale
Dr. Pedro Rodriguez
11-22-2002, 10:12 AM
Hello Dale and other beekeepers.
The "adaptor" is a brass fitting that fits into the fogger into the socket where the propane bottles attach. This fitting has a spout or nipple into which a high pressure rubber hose can be attached. This set up allows attaching the fogger to other types of propane bottles. In so doing, it becomes even more economic to use FGMO, and by using a larger propane bottle, one can save time during applications. Utilizing this method, beekeepers can treat up to 600 hives per hour, a factor that should be quite welcome by commercial beekeepers.
As you can see, I keep busy lookig for ways to improve the application of FGMO. We are getting to the point where FGMO can be utilised in cost effective ways, safely and as an effective alternative to synthetic pesticides.
Good luck to you all.