Wood Stoves

[Barry Digman]

Looks like I'm gonna have to put a stove in. Any thoughts about brand names from those who use them? I'm looking for a free-standing stove in the 25-30,000btu range with as close to zero clearance as possible. I looked at the QuadraFire and Earth Stoves today. (Man, no one is giving stoves away)

[BjornBee]

I would look for a wood-burning stove. A wood stove seems like a one time thing if you know what I mean. smile.gif

[Barry Digman]

I would look for a wood-burning stove. A wood stove seems like a one time thing if you know what I mean.I've always had trouble matching the appropriate materials to the technology. You should see my adobe migratory hives.

[MichaelW]

Coyote, check out masonry wood stoves. I especially like the Bavarian kind, I had a chance to make a couple of trips to Germany. They are the traditional way to heat your house in Bavaria. EXTREEMELY efficient. They build a fire in them once a day and thats it. The heat slowly radiates from the stone throught the day. Its basically a fire box with lots of passages for the smoke to travel within the masonry to absorbe the heat. There is lots of different ways to do it.

here's a link about masonry stoves
http://mha-net.org/

You will see they are extremely expensive, unless of course you can build one yourself which is what I plan to do. I'm afraid I have waited to late this year but may try and start on it this winter. The gas bills will be a motivation.

If you look into it post any more links you find. I need to learn more about designs to costome fit one in my house. It will be smaller than the Bavarian kind, it dosen't get bavarian cold here anyway.

[Sundance]

What fuels do you have available in NM coyote???

I imagine you are doing only "space" heating for the most part. The are a bunch of freestanding quality air tight wood stoves for $500.

[Barry Digman]

What fuels do you have available in NM coyote???Wood - Pinon, oak, aspen, ponderosa, cedar, juniper. Not much in the way of hardwood.
Coal
Pellets
Uranium (too much preparation)
Plenty of oil and natural gas, which I'm trying to avoid using.

Stopped by Home Depot and Lowe's today. Sold out. No stoves.

[Sundance]

Check ebay and sort by "distance: nearest first" you may get lucky

[Sundance]

Also with most of those woods cresote is a problem. Especially on highly efficient stoves.

A less efficient stove is probably a better idea than a super air tight.

[Rob-bee]

<You should see my adobe migratory hives.

That is so funny, I got a visual from that comment..I really would like to see a pic...
:eek:

[dragonfly]

Vermont Castings and Jotul make nice wood-burning stoves. They can be a little pricey, but both have an excellent reputation for function and for looks.

[BULLSEYE BILL]

I bought an Earth Stove in 1982 when the price of natural gas went sky high. I heated my house exclusivly with it for a few years, the only time the furnace, (set at 65), would come on is if we left for the weekend.

I liked it but hated digging out the ashes. It took being there at the right time and some manipulation to get the ash out without the coals. Need gloves and long handeled tools.

Some of the newer ones now have shaker grills on the bottom to help cleanout but raise a lot of dust in the house. No matter what you do, unless the unit sets outside, you are going to have a lot of ash dust all over the house, and either you are going to go domestic or you are going to hear about it constantly.

Another consideration is that the dry heat will dry out your house, don't forget to keep your woodwork, especially the furniture oiled or it will start splitting. The again you live in NM, you might not even have humidity to begin with.

I would opt for the outside model.

[The Honey House]

It's not the wood that dries out your house. It's more that relative humidity is much lower in the winter time. Open the front door and a bunch of cold air comes rushing in. Raising the temperature of that cold air will cause the relative humidity of that air to go down. If lots of cold air leaks in, then the relative humidity of the air inside the house will drop a lot.
So don't yell at the kids for letting all the heat out, yell at them for letting all that dry air in! smile.gif
But then again I like the mini lighting bolts to the door knobs - static discharge! smile.gif

[ October 12, 2005, 11:31 PM: Message edited by: The Honey House ]

[iddee]

Search for drum stoves, or similazr. They are kits you use to make your own stove from 55 gallon drums. You can buy a single drum kit, or a two drum kit.

[iddee]

One example
http://www.vogelzang.com/barrel_stoves.htm

[Barry Digman]

Search for drum stoves, or similazrNo drums in my casa. I was traumatized by them as a teen.

[MountainCamp]

If you have the space..
I installed a Central Boiler outdoor wood furnace 2 years ago, after heating with a wood stove and fireplace for the last 12.
I would not go back to the wood stove.
The outdoor furnace is the best of both worlds. Mt heating costs are zero and I do not have the smoke, wood, insects, ashes, and dust in the house. I don’t have to split wood, nor carry it into the house. The furnace also has a several day burn time, as opposed to several hours for the wood stove. There is no problem burning soft wood or even green wood, as the unit is free standing away from the house. I burn mostly slab pine that I get for free and only use the good hard wood when it gets really cold.
The furnace ties into your current heating system.

[Hillside]

MountainCamp,

I think I've seen what you're talking about sitting half hidden in a couple of back yards around here. They look like a little shed with a short smoke stack coming out the top. Is that what you're talking about?

Are they a hot water system that you plumb into the house with a heat exchanger in the furnace, or how do they work?

It looks like with such a short stack that smoke isn't released very high up and could be a problem at ground level; or don't you find it to be a problem.

I wouldn't mind having one of these to heat the greenhouses, which as you can imagine cost a bundle to keep warm on cold winter nights.

[MountainCamp]

The unit I have from Central Boiler looks just like a shed. It is duel fired wood / propane. The unit can be run on wood, wood w/ propane to start it, wood with propane back up, or propane only. I have yet to put a tank to it.
It is very windy here so the short stack is not a problem. They do have stack extensions to get it up abit.
It is a hot water boiler and can be tied to a forced hot air, baseboard, or radiant heating system.
You can tie it directly to the existing system or use a heat exchanger to isolate the outdoor unit.
I put radiant floor heat through the house, and my wife loves it. I like the heating costs - nothing. I get my wood for free, and I have converted by domestic hot water over to the wood unit as well using an inline heat exchanger. Hot water on demand and never run out.

[power napper]

I have two fireplaces in my house, used to burn eight hundred to a thousand gallons of fuel oil and burn about ten cords of hardwood, the heat almost totally went up the chimneys (13 inch square flue tile), then I heard about a company named sotz in Ohio. Bought two kits for fifteen to thirty five gallon drums. Bought two "stainless steel 35 gallon" drums and cut out for the round door and six inch stove pipe coupler. One stove would keep the house warm down to the outside temperature of thirty degrees, two stoves would entirely heat the house and we could heat for a winter with six cords of wood. Sotz is no longer in business (too many houses burned down) but we still have the stoves for an emergency situation such as no power because of an ice storm or whatever. We now heat with natural gas but I always liked the outdoor boilers for heat and domestic hot water. If I were doing it now that is the way I would go.

[Barry Digman]

http://www.5seasons.us/

[drobbins]

MountainCamp

I'm really interested in what you think of your outside boiler.
I already have a hot water heat system that heats the floors
I drive it with a propane water heater
of course propane is gonna go thru the roof
the problem I see with the outside boilers like that is that since they cost > $5k I wonder how long they'll last
I can get softwood fuel around here free just picking it up
I'm just worried that since the firebox lives in such horrible environment, 1000F inside and 200F outside, how many years will it hold up?
did you talk to folks who've had em for a while?
I figure it'd have to last 10 years to make good sense

Dave

[iddee]

Dave, Ray Salmon, the dealer in Durham, says his has been in operation for 15 years so far, and he's still using it. I didn't discuss what repairs he has had to make. You might want to give him a call.

[drobbins]

:eek:
I didn't know there was a dealer right up the road
I've been reading about em on the web
around here people haul pine out to the road and wait for the county to haul it off
it pains me to see free fuel going to waste, but you can't burn it inside (actually some folks do)
I'll look him up

thanx

Dave

[iddee]

Pine burns good to clean out your chimney. Just be sure you open the draft wide and let it howl. The trouble comes when you turn the draft down to control the heat. You need hardwood to do that.
Also, you don't want to wait too long between cleanouts. If the chimney gets too clogged you can set the inside of it ablase.

[The Honey House]

Pine always seem to get a bad rap when discussing
wood stoves. Truth of the matter is pine is fine.
However, it will not give you the same BTU’s as a good seasoned hardwood.

Problem stems from the fact that people over buy a stove.
They look at a stove and say, “that little thing can’t heat my huge house.
I better get the next size up.”
Soon they realize that the smaller one was what they needed as the larger one is driving them out of the room.
So they let a hardwood fire smolder all day and night just to keep the room comfortable.

Smoldering hardwoods creates creosote.
The creosote clings to the chimney tiles/liner.
Then when you burn pine, which burns very hot and fast, You catch the creosote on fire, then the fire department comes and tells you that you brought too big a stove for the area your trying to heat.

[MountainCamp]

Here is a link for the Central Boiler Units.
www.centralboiler.com/splash2.html (http://www.centralboiler.com/splash2.html)

I have a friend who's Central Boiler is still in service, 18 years later.

This is my 3rd season.

I would recommend the Central Boiler unit. I looked at alot of systems and they had the best designs by far. You can vary the water temperature with the Aquastat depending on the season.

My whole system runs on (2) 1/25 hp circulating pumps.

I burn almost 1/2 the wood I used to with the wood stove. I can burn free slab wood and I don't have to split wood.

[drobbins]

hehe

In my experience if you don't choke back the draft, "HOWL" is exactly what pine will do :eek:
I've got one of those triple wall sheet metal flues and it gives me the heebie-jeebies to watch an open flame go up that thing

Dave

[ October 13, 2005, 07:04 PM: Message edited by: drobbins ]

[drobbins]

MountainCamp

I've looked at their stuff before, I have a brochure
Their website even has a section talking about metallurgy, it's an issue with this type of system
I think they do a top notch job of it
if I'm not mistaken they have changed the alloy they use from a few years ago
I think it used to be 416 SS now it appears to be a titanium/unobtainium alloy smile.gif
I could be wrong, will have to go find my brochure
iddee pointed me to a dealer right down the road, with the price of fuel I'll be talking to him soon

Thanks for the info
Dave

[MountainCamp]

I went with the steel unit.
The furnace is controlled by an aquastat that opens and closes the draft door. It burns for a while and then shuts down and smolders till the water temperature drops below the setpoint range.
You can set the draft opening.
The nice thing about the furnace being stand alone, the house is safe.
About once a month I open the door up and let her ripe to clean the stack.

[ October 13, 2005, 07:39 PM: Message edited by: MountainCamp ]

[drobbins]

hmm
in the online brochure I don't see an all steel option
now that I know of a nearby dealer I'll go talk to him about options

Dave

[carbide]

drobbins

If I interpret their manual correctly the CL models are regular steel and their SCL and HFSS models are a titanium stainless alloy.

Tom

[MountainCamp]

The CL units are steel.
I use my furnace year round to heat my home and my domestic hot water during the off heating season.
So the unit does not sit cold for any length of time, so there is no mositure on the fire side.
I check the water level & chemistry on a regular basis so that the water side if good.
If I was only going to use the unit part of the year, I might of looked harder at the SS option.

[iddee]

MountainCamp ,
I would be curious as to the size of your stove and what the cost was 2 years ago. I wnat to see if there has been a large price increase corresponding to the oil price increases. The price I got was Approx. 4800.00 for the stove only, 10,500.00, fully installed for a 2000 sq. ft. house. How does this compare to when you put yours in?

[MountainCamp]

The 250,000 BTU/hr input unit ranaround $5,000.00 delivered.
I purchased the Central Boiler CL5636 - 500,000 BTU/ HR input. approx 425,000 btu / hr output.
The base price of the unit to fire with wood only was about $6,000.00. I opted for the duel fire version with propane as my back up fuel. The unit total was about $8,400.00
I figured for $1,000.00 more I got twice the stove, larger firebox, longer burn times, less cycling and more store energy in the water.

The delivery was included in the price.

I did the installation myself for mine and last year I help a buddy install his.

They are very easy to install. I am not a plumber by any means. I also installed radiant floor heart through out the house and a heat exchanger to do my domestic hot water.

I plan on putting a pool in either this spring or next and I will be able to heat the pool for nothing as well. The season for swimming is too short not to heat it.

My home is about 3,200 sf heated with the finished basement.

[Dan Williamson]

>>10,500.00, fully installed for a 2000 sq. ft. house.

I know this is a thread on wood stoves but.....
That sure is alot of $$. Go with a corn furnace. I got a 100,00btu furnace for around $5000. Runs off my thermostat. with corn prices at 1.56/bu I expect to burn about 325bu this winter. It doesn't heat your water though. It heats 2300sq ft finished plus the 1500 sq ft unfinished basement (so 3800sq ft total). Worth every penny. Wood may be free but you still have to cut it etc... I'm sold on heating with corn.

I looked at Central Boiler but it was too expensive for my taste.

[ October 18, 2005, 12:58 PM: Message edited by: dtwilliamson ]

[MountainCamp]

What are they doing for the $10,500.00 installed price?

I like the outdoor furnace from the stand point that the fire is outside the house. I do not have to bring wood or corn or anything into the house. No dust, dirt, ashes, or storage issues.

The boiler operates on an aquastat and the house circulating pump operates off the thermostat.

The entire house is what ever temperature you set the thermostat to.

I load the furnace up and it will go for days. Even at below 0F temps.

My cutting is simple, I run a saw through a pile of wood. I can cut a pile of slab wood in a few mintues.

I looked at my time cutting, loading and maintain the furnace, it is under 20 hours a year. I am saving about $50.00 a month on my electric hot water bill alone.

[iddee]

I found that they were somewhat overpriced. I found the equal stove by Taylor, but much better made, fully installed, for 7500. Other than what mountaincamp said, I also like having the logs brought to me free and all I have to do is cut them to length. "One of my tennants runs a tree service"
Also, corn here is 4.50 a bushel, not 1.65.

[Sundance]

All fuels are somewhat regional. For sure corn, wheat, etc. Wood can be pricy if you are in a metro area for sure. Having a slab wood source is a wonderful luxery that the majority can't access.

I will be going with an outside boiler unit when funds allow due to the mess that has been commented on already. I burn wood with a forced air unit and the dust, ash, and mess does get old for sure.

[Dan Williamson]

>>Also, corn here is 4.50 a bushel, not 1.65.

Is that buying it in 50lb bags? I store my corn outside in a wagon that holds 117bu. (Got the wagon for free). I go to the farmer or coop down the road. Farmer I talked to on Sunday said he just sold it last Sat for $1.56 a bu. But then again..... I've got corn fields everywhere around me! smile.gif

There is a 2" flex line running from my wagon to a cylinder above my corn bin(12bu bin on side of furnace) My shop vac is hooked up to the cylinder and when turned on sucks corn from the wagon into the cylinder in my basement. It cleans the corn and when full it drops into the bin. Because the bin is 12bu, I can sometimes go 8-10 days without refilling if necessary (around 40-50 degrees). When it is very cold (teens or lower)I can go 2-3 days without filling. Because it is a complete furnace it hooks right into the ductwork and you get heat all thru the house. You DO need a chimney that it can hook up to though.

My furnace will burn corn, rye, wheat, wood pellets, and cherry pits. I use corn but when I visited the manufacturer he was burning rye in his.

http://www.ja-ran.com/superior.php

Disclaimer: I have no relationship with the above manufacturer other than I own their 100,000 btu furnace.

I got quotes for Central Boiler for $7000 delivered. Installation was more. When I told the dealer that I had no interest in paying that kind of price he started dropping his price immediately. You can definately negotiate with these guys. I knew he couldn't get down to my price and with the easy availability of corn he couldn't beat it. I have free wood myself. I live in the woods and can get all I want. Corn is actually less work for me with my current set up.

At least research it. If corn is that high for you there, I would think that wood is probably your best bet. I'm sure you can get the corn for cheaper but maybe not cheap enough to make a difference. Had I gone with a wood boiler, I would have used the Central Boiler. It seemed to be the best quality out there and certainly has a good track record from my research. I know people who love their outdoor wood furnaces.

Good luck with your decision.

[ScadsOBees]

Don't know if you've decided yet, but if you wait too much longer, you're better off waiting till spring. I know the pellet stoves are going really fast. I imagine most other alternative heaters are too.

I just installed the Quadrafire SantaFe, it is a very nice stove and quite convenient, and can burn corn or pellets. I considered woodstoves, but then with the process of installing a chimney, the overall heat of the unit and the clearance plus the fact that they aren't much less I decided I'd just go with the Quadrafire.

It is nice and small, the flue pipe goes in really easy, runs on a thermostat (autoignite) and costed as much or less as other models I looked at. If size matters, then this is a nice compact machine for you.

Pellets aren't much cheaper than gas right now, but that is supposed to change soon. Corn is still cheaper.

I bought mine a month and a half ago. I didn't buy the pipe right away, and had a bit of a time getting that.

[MichaelW]

Since I've ran out of time on building a masonry wood stove. Thinking something like design #2
http://www.tripletrick.com/kachelofen/galery.htm
we've decided to go third world for the winter. I will be building a Cob oven in my present fireplace extending out on the hearth. I'll stick some stove pipe in the back of it to go up the chimney acting as a flue liner. (I have to rebuild my chimney with a liner for a masonry wood stove). It should be fine for one winter, we can sleep in the living room if its not warm enough to heat the house. Cost will be stove pipe, scoop of sand, bail of straw. Likely supplementing some heat with present gas system.

Here's a simple cob oven for outdoor cooking. You have to build a door with iron and fire brick to put one in as I described.

http://mha-net.org/docs/v8n2/wildac04b.htm

anyone have experience with cob ovens?

[ October 19, 2005, 05:08 PM: Message edited by: MichaelW ]