Deer Rifle thoughts please

[nursebee]

I am set to buy my first deer rifle. Background info--> I am 6'6", will likely shoot at home up to 200 yards distance. Want a scope. Level land with some sparse housing limits shooting angles.

I am looking at new rifles and am impressed that they cost a lot. Have not ventured into used rifle shopping but have been warned by father in law that rifling can wear out. He says it can be tough to know if there is something wrong with a used piece.

I am reading library books and keeping an open mind. Any thoughts on new versus used and how to make this successful? Any other ideas???

[roger eagles]

A good 270 is a nice rifle and don't damage the meat much.Get one,any rifle and reload a few diferant rounds in it for grouping.If ya can't get it to group with no loads,It probably wore out.

[Sundance]

Are you going to hunt only whitetail and simular sized game?

If yes then the 270 is my choice. I have 2 of them in bolt and semi-auto. Don't get me wrong the 270 can handle bigger game but a 30-06 would be a better choice if you intend on doing elk, bear, etc.

Worn rifling is unusual in newer used deer rifle because they just are not fired that much. If you buy used try to get one from someone you know.

There are some nice older military rifles like the mausers. But they require some knowledge of bores to pick a good one. Also cartridges can be spendy and hard to find.

[BubbaBob]

I use a WinMag 300 with a 10x scope. If I can see it, I can reach it.

BubbaBob

[David Stewart]

I'm partial to a bolt action 30-06 since it is effective on every North American big game I may ever have the opportunity to hunt. My next choice would be a .270. I agree with the other poster regarding used rifles being fine. I wouldn't buy one that was rusty or really damaged stock....but I certainly wouldn't pay new price either.

[Barry Digman]

Get with Bullseye Bill.

[GaSteve]

I too have a 300 WinMag. It has an incredibly flat trajectory and packs a lot of energy at great distances. Some call it overkill, but I wouldn't trade it for anything.

[Michael Bush]

My favorite deer rifle is a sporterized M96 6.5mm x 55mm Swedish Mauser. The barrel is only 20" long and it's very light. I would enjoy it fine with the standard chambering shooting Hornady light magnums or Eurospecs, but since I handload I rechambered it for 6.5mm Ackley improved. I have a 140 grain bullet going 3400 fps. A very sweet little, accurate, lightweight, light recoil, hard hitting, long shooting gun.

My second favorite is my .25-06. I've never seen a .25-06 that wasn't a tack driver and mine is way past that. It's a Ruger M77V with a heavy barrel and will shoot them all in the same hole at 100 yards. The only downsides are:

1. Much more recoil than the 6.5mm and less velocity.

2. Weighs twice as much as the sporterized 6.5mm.

3. Burns more powder than the 6.5mm

4. Not as many nice long (read sectional density and high ballistic coefficient) bullets available.

Both are wonderful deer rifles.

The best bargin I ever got on a really good deer rifle was a sporterized M93 7mm mauser with a scope for $100. Nice low recoil, accurate, light weight AND cheap.

My next choice would be a .260 Remington.

But in the end any good centerfire rifle from 6mm (.243) and up will do well if you sight it in and practice enough to be able to shoot it well.

[Sundance]

As Michael said any centerfire will do. Here in ND we can use 22 cal. centerfires for deet like a 22-250 or .222 mag. I would never use one myself. Just to light.

I do recomend staying with a common caliber unless you reload and shoot a bunch.

In my opinion a 300 mag is a fantastic rifle but overkill for whitetail. My suggestion is a .243, .270, or 30-06, whatever is cheapest.

[BULLSEYE BILL]

Deja-vu all over again :rolleyes:

Your 6'-6" want to shoot 200 yds, but have homes in close proximity.

You can handle any rifle between 308 and 300WM and any rifle in that range will have a two inch, (or less) drop at 200yds.

While the 300WM is a fine choice especially if you MAY go elk or griz hunting, you may not want that much recoil. My favorite is the 7mm Mag, flat shooter and will drop anything on this continent with less recoil than the 300. Still that may be too much for denser populated areas, I don't have that problem here.

I sell more 270, 308, and 243 ammunition than any other caliber during hunting season. 30-06, 7mm, and 25-06 after those. Whatever you pick, check the price and preformance of the amunition before making your choice. That "real deal" on the Weatherby will turn to sour grapes when you find the ammo is $79.99 per box.

If you are not a handloader, look into the Nosler balistic tip ammo, or the Partition Gold for heavier game. Most "meat hunters" (aka non-shooters) don't practice enough, mostly because of the price of ammunition, and wonder why they are not as succesful as they think they should be.

I wouldn't hesitate to buy a used handgun, but a rifle is a totally different story. Accuracy is measured in dollar signs, not only for the rifle itself but in the scope as well. High calibur shooters will spend as much for a scope as they will for a rifle. Hunters do not have to as the level of accuracy is a heart shot, a target the size of a saucer.

I buy and sell lots of used rifles, some of them I actully know the condition of and impart that information when I know it for a fact to the customer. Most used rifles are not taken proper care of. They are not broken in correctly nor are they cleaned as they should be, leaving heavy copper deposites in the barrel reducing the capabilities of the rifle. For myself, I will not buy a used rifle. I bought a used Leupold scope once that came with a rifle, but I promptly re-barreled the rifle and began the breaking in process anew.

There have been a lot of changes and new models coming out this year. Look into the Remingtons and CZ's for your best bang for the buck. (pun intended), ($550 - $700ish) Also look into the hunter series of scopes in the Leupold line. ($250ish) In the end, if you are starting out cold, rifle, scope, bases, rings, bore sighting, ammo, case, cleaning kit, and little range time will set you back about a grand, but you will know what you have.

Or you can find a used rifle with a knock around scope for 3 or 4 bills and call it good. Buyer beware.

[Sundance]

Good info Bill.

A question I would like to hear is where you hunt..... that is....... Is it heavily wooded? Open plains.

I got 4 deer last year and not one was over 50 yards. My scoped gun gathers dust for the most part. I hunt shelter belts or we push to a poster.

If you are hunting in "close" conditions a scope is not needed and in fact is a hassle and can cost you a quick close shot.

Do you have a decent shotgun? Fully rifled barrels are available for most popular guns and are deadly in closer ranges (up to 150 yards and more). Do not confuse them with old slug guns as these fully rifled barrels with sabots are plenty accurate for whitetail.

[BubbaBob]

BB, the 79.95 a box thingy is why I use a WIN mag, not Weatherby...and I save even more by handloading.

BubbaBob

[BULLSEYE BILL]

>A question I would like to hear is where you hunt..... that is....... Is it heavily wooded? Open plains.

Heavily wooded in Kansas? Uh, well, it could happen, I guess down in the SE corner, even maybe up by KC. I am in the Flint Hills. Gently rolling prarie with treed ravines and creeks. I usualy have oppertunities from 75 to 375 yards. I don't try anything out farther than that even though the rifle is capable, it's just not necessary to risk maming an animal. If I can't drop it with a clean sure shot I don't take it.

I got 4 deer last year and not one was over 50 yards. My scoped gun gathers dust for the most part. I hunt shelter belts or we push to a poster.

That is a different type of hunting than I am used too.

>If you are hunting in "close" conditions a scope is not needed and in fact is a hassle and can cost you a quick close shot.

I had a close shot once with my 7. I was terribly sick but promised my brother to hunt with him. Well I was quite pleased with the idea that I could return to the fireplace and my bottle of Hot **** IF I plugged the buck that walked up to the other side of the cedar tree I was standing by. You are absolutly right, I did not need that scope at eight foot.

>Do you have a decent shotgun? Fully rifled barrels are available for most popular guns and are deadly in closer ranges (up to 150 yards and more). Do not confuse them with old slug guns as these fully rifled barrels with sabots are plenty accurate for whitetail.

DO I HAVE A DECENT SHOTGUN? Now really! :rolleyes:

Yes I do, but they are not very useful for deer hunting in our area. For clsoe quarter hunting and stalking, I would rather use a revolver.

[BULLSEYE BILL]

>BB, the 79.95 a box thingy is why I use a WIN mag, not Weatherby...and I save even more by handloading.

Me too! and I took it for granted that you meant Win Mag.

[nursebee]

I do have a shotgun. A Mossberg 835 Accuchoke. After taking the hunter safety class I read on the barrel where it said to not use slugs...hence I am shopping for a rifle.

I plan on shooting a lot to get a good feel of the gun, to learn to squeeze the trigger without going off target, and to hit the intended target. So yes, ammunition cost is a concern.

Thanks for advice. Any thoughts on buying from mass merchant (Mall-wart) or local small shop?

[dickm]

Nursebee,
I have a variety of rifles. Not trying to sell them but they are for sale. 7mm mag, 300 mag and a "close" gun, a .35 lever action. (the saddle gun used in most westerns.) I also have a Mossberg 12 with a rifled barrel. For anything up to 150 yards, you don't need anything else. Longer than that is a problem with any gun. (I know, a lot of arguements here guys, but save them.) I was amazed at the accuracy of the slugs made for this weapon. The last I knew the barrels were a little more than $100. They come with a scope mount welded on them. State forests here in Ct. won't allow rifles of any kind. The kick is different when you are holding on a target. This would give you a chance to see if you want that much kick in your hunting. With a manum 3" shotgun load, the 2 big rifles and the shotgun all hurt a little, but about the same. I've been a bowhunter for 10 years.


dickm

[The Honey House]

"With a manum 3" shotgun load, the 2 big rifles and the shotgun all hurt a little, but about the same."
when at the bench!

I can honestly say that I have never felt recoil
when hunting. I know it went off but I never felt a thing. Also when shooting from a bench I always lose sight of the target, when hunting the scene says crystal clear even during recoil.
Mind power I guess. smile.gif
I like the big bores, 375H&H and up!

[BULLSEYE BILL]

When you are bagged tight behind a rifle on a bench you will feel more recoil simply because you are sitting solid. When hunting, and usually during the winter with extra clothing (padding), you are normally standing upright, kneeling, or braced against a tree, post, etc. When the gun fires you are free to rock back with the recoil, asorbing little of it. Couple that with the excitement of the hunt and you are likely to miss the recoil alltogether, a good thing.

Remember, the heavier the rifle, the lighter the bullet, the less the recoil. Unfortunatly, packin that Rem Sendero in the mountains is less than fun.

>Any thoughts on buying from mass merchant (Mall-wart) or local small shop?

Yeah, I send all my customers to Wally-World ;)
Truthfully, what you get when you buy from a small shop is the expertise of the staff. Their knowledge to guide you into what is right for you, and their ability to help you with your problems. That is what you pay a little extra for. The staff at the Mart Marts do not have the ability to special order the right parts for you, and do not have the knowledge to guide you in the right direction.

[Sundance]

I would recomend a small shop for sure! Especially if you are picking up a used rifle. They will have inspected the bore and will usually stand behind the rifle.

That Mossberg will make a fine deer gun. The reason they say do not use slugs is specific to the barrel it comes with. You need to get a fully rifled slug barrel. It will have rifle sights on the tip and when installed you will be deadly.

[BULLSEYE BILL]

>They will have inspected the bore and will usually stand behind the rifle.

If you find someone who will stand in front of it, don't buy it! :D

$162.00 plus freight for the barrel
http://www.mossberg.com/acatalog/pricebarrels.htm

[roger eagles]

The shot he was stating was up to 200 yards.THE 270 IS MOST COMMON,EASY TO FIND AMO.i HAVE A MANLICKER 30-O6,nICE RIFLE BUT NEVER USE.Its a hamberger fifle using 150gr.We take lots of bears at my camp,and 30-06 just make me tremble.Skinned over400 bears,if hit in bone,terrible damage.I tell them if thats all they got,slow down below 3000 ft. and load with 200.I personally don't like 30-06 on bears.Also doing taxidermy for 30 plus years,Iz Hates Fixin.LikeMike says,Thats my opinion,my expereances Roger

[Sundance]

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=29878689

Here's a new 835 rifled barrel ported for $127

And you do not need an FFL to get it shipped to you.

[Sundance]

I agree with Roger...... If your going with a rifle the 270 is hard to beat. I have 2 of them. a Remington 7400 semi and Remington 700 bolts. Ammo is cheap.

[butterfly]

Im with Mike This mans vast knoledge of all subjects from honey bees weather conditions and now with hunting rifle bulistics I believe he can teach us how to down a water buffalo with a sling shot Anybody want to bet.

[chemistbert]

I own quite a few rifles and always go to my killin' gun. A old beat 30 WCF chambered Winchester '94. When something I see needs to get dead this rifle normally does it. Light, handy, ugly (so I don't care if I add a scratch), and plenty powerfull. But I don't think anyone makes a "bad" rifle so pick any you think you like. Better still pick all that you think you might like. smile.gif

[roger eagles]

The old winchester is gteat,can evan use it as a paddle and wont hurt it.My heaviest is my 416,good for 8 shots on the bench.Use 400 grain did go threw length of moose and a elk,lead stayed just under the skin onexit.There was 367 and364 grains still held together,and no meat damage.Favorite sweet heart rifle,ruger 243.Nice.Love it.

[Michael Bush]

>Im with Mike This mans vast knoledge of all subjects from honey bees weather conditions and now with hunting rifle bulistics I believe he can teach us how to down a water buffalo with a sling shot Anybody want to bet.

Weather conditions?

As a matter of fact, I have written a reloading manual specifically for the .25-06 and would be happy to sell it to anyone interested. You can email me at: bush at inebraska dot com. I have kept careful notes of every load I've ever tried and every shot every fired from my Ruger M77V .25-06 over the last 23 years and have consolidated any reloading information I could find in any reloading manual in print (and out of print) for the .25-06 and .25 Niedner (the name before the wildcat came into the fold).

I have also compiled all the information I could find on 6.5 x 55mm loads and made notes of loads that I have tried in it and the 6.5 x 55mm Ackley improved. And I would be willing to sell that, if anyone has an interest in that caliber.

I'm afraid when it comes to shooting water buffalo I will have to plead total ignorance. I have never had the opportunity to even try to shoot one. There are not many in Nebraska and the zoos frown on shooting them. I'm sure, however that anyone who would take one on with a slingshot will be quickly removed from the gene pool. I have shot deer, elk and antelope however. I have seen many buffalo (the American Bison, not the water buffalo) shot with a .270. So I suppose I have a pretty good idea what it takes to kill one of them too, although I was not the shooter.

I find ballistics to be a most fascinating subject, one which I own scores of books on and have spent many enjoyable hours of the last 23 years studying, practicing and experimenting with.

[BubbaBob]

Water buffalo with a slingshot? It could happen...David did a pretty good job on Goliath with a sling...

BubbaBob

[BULLSEYE BILL]

I caution anyone and everyone about the use of second hand reloading information. Never use any loading material that is not found in print from a legitment powder or bullet manufacturer.

Some powders are more forgiving that others and can be reduced or pushed, others absolutely should not. Research and development is done in very specific scientific methodiology in laboratories, is costly to the manufacturers, and should not be dismissed.

I have seen too many accidents due to not following the exact recepies the manufacturer has set forth. Missing fingers and facial damage is no joke. It is all too easy to get a decimal point out of context, or confuse a starting point with a maximum. Be smart, not a victim of an accident.

Mike, I would caution you not to open yourself up to the legal liability associated with selling reloading data. It's not worth the risk.

[Michael Bush]

The reloading tables are compiled from legitimate sources. The notes are my experience with them. Of course anyone who doesn't follow standard reloading practices such as backing off and working up and looking for signs of pressure can easily harm or destroy their gun and themselves.

Some of the loads that I found in those legitimate sources (magazines, relading manuals both recent and ancient and reloading annuals) had upper loads I found to be unsafe and I have lowered the listing for the high end. But I have not tried all the loads that I compiled from all those sources. Partly it would be very time consuming to test so many that I don't have a need for and secondly many of the powders are obsolete and I can't find them. The compilation is very useful for a starting point for many powders. They are also very useful if you have a stock of old powder since many of the listings in the really old manuals are for obsolete (no longer manufactured) powders. But many people still have some on hand.

You may be right that it's not worth it. But I would like to save other's the years of work that went into what I worked out from all that information.

But then again I was in the gun store the other day and someone was asking if it was normal to have to hammer the bolt open after firing a reload. I wanted to slap him and scream and laugh and cry at the same time.

Some people should NOT reload. They do not have the mindset required. Lucky for him a bolt action gun is more solid than it is required to be. Not that his will be for much longer if he doesn't change his ways.

Thanks for the advice.

[chemistbert]

You can not stress safety during reloading enough. I always say of you are not 100% comfortable then buy factory rounds.

[BULLSEYE BILL]

>Thanks for the advice.

You are welcome.

Reminds me of a story that an employee of mine told me. His name was Mike too, rest his soul. He was at Camp Perry one year and was doing some hand loading with a simple hand press inbetween matches.

He would take a case and scoop it full of powder, (I forget what kind), brush it off level, set a bullet on it and press it in.

This fellow walking by stopped and with dropped jaw and a look of amazement on his face asked, "You been reloading long?"

Mike replied, "Oh about a half hour."

[power napper]

Almost ashamed to admit it but when I gotta hunt with a rifle instead of archery I still use a world war 1 gun, it is a 30 40 krag. Does the job.

[chemistbert]

Why ashamed? Your kills just as dead and probably cost a fraction of what some peoples latest magnum thunderofgoddeerwhacker rifle does. My opinion is use what suits you and to heck with everyone else.

[Sundance]

Be proud of the Krag.... a darn nice rifle.

I yawn when people wax on about their $2000.00 rifles and perk up and lean forward when they bring up a Krag, Mauser, Arisaka, etc.