Censorship, what is it?

[Barry]

Greetings -

I decided to start this topic because from time to time, some form of moderation is required to enforce the rules of this board. Some times when the moderation has to involve more drastic measures, the cry of censorship comes up. I am tired of having these "censorship" discussions come up right in the middle of a beekeeping topic and find it to be most disruptive. I am now going to move all such talk to this forum so as not to degrade the other forums.

I include a recent one here from the FGMO forum and would appreciate anyone who is interested in hashing out this topic to feel free to express themselves. This still must be done in a civil manner and any name calling will result in deleted posts.

I am open to criticism on how this board is run and the rules it is governed by. I hope it is constructive and perhaps it will broaden my perspective on this usual volatile topic. Is there a difference between censorship and moderation? I think there is but I believe some see them as one in the same.

Regards,
Barry

[Admin]

posted March 18, 2003 11:00 PM in the FGMO Forum
Alfred - Junior Member
Posts: 12
From: Germany
Registered: Dec 2002


Barry in my opinion

This BB has already moved to YOUR level, there is no freedom of speech because you’re the dictator of this board.

First Mr. Gormas and now Kevin S. who is the next on your list, will you remove all inconvenient members? Should we send you the articles for your blessing before posting on this board?

Deleting the postings from FOR YOU UNCOMFORTABLE members is a shame. In this case it is a waste of time to read your “leftovers”.

A young beekeeper should have the possibility to learn what’s happen if he is looking for one or others. Everything has more then one side but how can we learn what is good or less for the individual when someone on the BB makes always a censor?

This means all postings have already your blessings otherwise………. “CUT”

I have never seen a control like this in a free country. We had this in our eastern part of Germany for 40 years till 1989.

As an American go ahead with your censor, this is the Internet and the whole world is watching you.

Regards,
Alfred

[Admin]

posted March 18, 2003 11:45 PM in the FGMO Forum
Jorge - Member
Posts: 85
From: West Harrison,
NY, USA
Registered: Sep 2002


Hey guys, would you please cut it out with the nasty tone. If some don't like this discussion group, just leave it. Nobody is forced to stay or read any of this. Barry, as the moderator has the right to stick by the rules of engagement and terminate membership or remove a posting by those who do not participate accordingly.

I personally really dislike baseless accusations. If you have proof of something show it respectfully. Otherwise, don't bring it up. If you have a personal vendetta, clear it up in private. If I were to come in to your house and spread gossip and accuse you of this or that, you have all the freedom to kick me out, right?

[Michael Bush]

I think all of us including Barry welcome open discussion of methods and sucesses and failures. Even informing others of us of published data that might credit or discredit certain ideas. But false accusations and claims of published data without references that are used to discredit someone are not appropriate. Flaming is not appropriate. Name calling is not appropriate. None of these things add to the enjoyment of the board or the usefulness of the information.

I have seen very good discussion boards taken off line because of people making slanderous statements repeatly until the moderator just got tired of all the stress and closed the board. I would hate to see something like that happen here. Freedom requires self control. We can all say what we have to say without making unsubstaniated statments against people and without being uncivil. You can disagree with someone and still show them respect.

I, for one, really appreciate the work that Barry puts into this for no finacial gain that I can see and I think he should also be treated with appropriate respect.

Thanks Barry for all of your work.

[BWrangler]

Hello Everyone,

Nothing is free anywhere. Someone goes out and works to make good money and then invests some of that money into this bulletin board for a purpose. I'm sure that money is a minor contribution compared to the time the owner invests.

That purpose is the desemination of beekeeping information in a polite and informative manner. The structure of this board allows members to maintain a high quality archive. It allows maximum flexibilty for members contributions. As this board appears to be the largest yet, many must find it very useful.

If you have tried to follow threads on the other bee lists, you will know what I mean! The subject lines are almost invalid and the duplicate and quoted posts make the reading very tedious on those other lists. Many posts are irrelevant and lots of post are very close to flames.

On this board everyone is welcome as long as they are not trying to purvey vulgarity, racism, antagonism, or promote commercial interests.

A member can start a topic of any interest as long as its related to bees or express opinions in the tailgater forum. What more could anyone want? Unless it's to purvey vulgarity, racism, antagonism or promote commercial interests. If that's part of one's beekeeping, then let them start their own board. Spend their own money and time and go for it. It's not free.

The variety and range of topics on this list destroys any notion of censorshop here. Beekeeping ideas are not censored but bad internet behavior is not tolerated.

So what's so different. Try bad behavior in a resturant, out you go. Try bad behavior in school, out you go. Try bad behaviour in a bar, out you go on your head! Bad behaviour in a public place and to jail you go. Where's the freedom? One's free to behave or leave.

Maybe some need a little education in good internet behavior and must be coddled along like a mis-behaving child. That takes more time from the moderators and is not very rewarding as most that find themselves in this situation are not lacking education but rather good character. They often lack the ability to moderate themselves even within the very limited constraints of this bulletin board.

I would rather go to the grocery store and find the stuff I need among all the fresh, clean and neatly organized produce than go to the dump and try to find something good there. Same principles apply with food for my beekeeping mind.

So, in my opinion if one prefers a dump to sort through, go for it. Try it here and out they go.

Dennis

[Barry]

I'd like to address some of Alfred's comments.

> This BB has already moved to YOUR level, there is no freedom of
> speech because you’re the dictator of this board.

Actually, the BB has been at MY level from the day I bought it and integrated it into the Beesource.com web site. I don't consider myself a dictator but I suppose some may.

Dictator: An absolute ruler, especially one who is harsh and oppressive.

I may be the absolute "ruler" or one to make the final call when needed, but I strive to do it in a fair and honest way, not hiding anything.

> First Mr. Gormas and now Kevin S. who is the next on your list, will you
> remove all inconvenient members? Should we send you the articles for
> your blessing before posting on this board?

Mr. Gomez has not been removed from this board. Mr. Lunsford has, due to the private emails he sent a moderator spewing all sorts of vile comments. I have no desire to remove anyone. I will remove postings, however, that do not adhere to this board's rules. In the 3 years this board has been operating, only 2 members have been banned from it. That's roughly .25 percent of the membership.

No blessing is needed from me. The only thing you need to run your comments by first are the rules you agreed to when you joined. If a refresher is needed, go here:
http://www.beesource.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/Ultimate.cgi?action=agree

> A young beekeeper should have the possibility to learn what’s happen if he
> is looking for one or others. Everything has more then one side but how can
> we learn what is good or less for the individual when someone on the BB
> makes always a censor?

cen-sor n.
1. A person authorized to examine books, films, or other material and to remove or suppress what is considered morally, politically, or otherwise objectionable.

Okay, yea, I guess I have censored someone. In joining this board, you agreed to give up your complete free will and abide by the rules. When one decides they don't want to abide by the rules, I will remove or suppress the material first and then if it continues, the person.

The way all of us can learn of both sides is not to write in such a manner that will get you censored.

> This means all postings have already your blessings otherwise………. “CUT”

Yea, basically. I wouldn't use the word "blessings", but guidelines. All postings have to pass the guidelines otherwise . . . . . "CUT"

> I have never seen a control like this in a free country. We had this in our
> eastern part of Germany for 40 years till 1989.

Really?! Are you allowed to walk down the street in front of your house while firing off rounds from a gun into the air? Are you allowed to yell "fire" in a public crowd, even if there is no fire? Just how free are you over there in Germany? Around here in the States, one would spend time in jail for the above behavior. I suspect your "free country" has plenty of restrictions that you must abide by. I believe true freedom comes when we submit ourselves to the authorities that are placed in our lives. These would include God, church, government, family, wife/husband, parent/child, etc.

> As an American go ahead with your censor, this is the Internet and the
> whole world is watching you.

Yes, the whole world is watching. I'll place my bet on the fact that most people accept rules in their life.

Regards,
Barry

[dcross]

"I don't consider myself a dictator but I suppose some may."

How about benevolent despot? Seriously though, keep up the good work.

[clintonbemrose]

I don't think I could do better.
Keep up the good work, THANKS Barry
Clint

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Clinton Bemrose
just South of Lansing Michigan

[Joel Acheson]

Personal message to Alfred, Junior Member from Germany:

Alfred, I hope you are still reading this column, and receive this message, because I believe that you owe Barry an apology in a public forum, inasmuch as your insulting and juvenile letter was posted in a public forum.

I speak from personal experience, having posted messages on sites moderated by Barry for in excess of two years, that his manner of moderation is neither arbitrary nor censurious. I have at times engaged in rather strenuous disagreements with others in this forum, and have seen the same interplay between other members, and it was allowed by Barry because we were able to disagree without becoming disagreeable. I suggest you would be well-served to take this distinction to heart.

I hope you stay with us, Alfred, stay agreeably with us.


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gnubee