The Pledge of Allegiance

[thesurveyor]

This is something that outrages me. When I think of all the men and women who have gave their lives in order for me to have the right of free speech and we have this kinda stuff happening. It makes me furious. Take a look and sign the petition if you agree with what this site is trying to do.
http://www.wepledge.com/

Thesurveyor

[dcross]

I don't think anyone is trying to ban the Pledge of Allegiance, they're just trying to remove "In God we trust", which wasn't even in the original, Congress put it in during the Cold War to help distinguish us from the Atheist Commies. Personally, I don't think the government should be involved in matters regarding God.

[Michael Bush]

>I don't think anyone is trying to ban the Pledge of Allegiance, they're just trying to remove "In God we trust", which wasn't even in the original, Congress put it in during the Cold War to help distinguish us from the Atheist Commies. Personally, I don't think the government should be involved in matters regarding God.

Actually it's "One Nation, under God" not "In God we trust", which was added in 1954. "In God we Trust" has been the US Motto (but not in the Pledge of Allegiance) since it's inception. The Pledge was also changed after the US Civil War (AKA the War of Northern Aggression, The War between the States, The War for States Rights, The Uncivil War, etc.) when "Indivisible" was added right after the phrase now in question. None of this phrase: "under God, Indivisible," was in the original Pledge.


[This message has been edited by Michael Bush (edited March 05, 2003).]

[BULLSEYE BILL]

I think that the message is loud and clear. In God I trust, anyone else, including the government must earn it.
The post office is trying to ban the slogan from their stamps even though the money they take for them is all engraved on the back "IN GOD WE TRUST". I am making an ink stamp to put on all of my mail, IN GOD WE TRUST!
Bill

[This message has been edited by BULLSEYE BILL (edited March 04, 2003).]

[Eich]

Thanks for bring it up. I agree the pledge if very important and I too am putting on my mail "In God I trust" Darrell

[BjornBee]

What a great country! You have the religious right wanting to dictate cable tv instead of just turning the channel. Then you have the left wanting to take "In God we Trust" and "Under God" off of everything. What passion and petty crap all rolled together. I say take the 10% of the far right and the 10% on the far left and smack them good. I wonder when was the last time any of these people volunteered doing anything, helped with big brothers/big sisters, helped with shoveling a neighbors walk, did anything worthwhile. It's normally when people have nothing worthwhile in thier own lives that they look at other peoples concers to fill the void.

[Michael Bush]

>What a great country! You have the religious right wanting to dictate cable tv instead of just turning the channel. Then you have the left wanting to take "In God we Trust" and "Under God" off of everything. What passion and petty crap all rolled together. I say take the 10% of the far right and the 10% on the far left and smack them good. I wonder when was the last time any of these people volunteered doing anything, helped with big brothers/big sisters, helped with shoveling a neighbors walk, did anything worthwhile. It's normally when people have nothing worthwhile in thier own lives that they look at other peoples concers to fill the void.

Life would be better if everyone would "get a life" insead of minding everyone elses business.

But at least we live in a country where everyone can complain if they want. (I think) They didn't repeal that in the last "patriot" act did they?

[mark williams]

As the late Hank Williams said, If you would mind your on business,you would't have time to mind mine,,

[Got Honey?]

I am a highschooler in the bay area California, and our school wont let you say the pledge of Allegiance over the PA system because "we might offend someone" when the only person they are offending is ME THE AMERICAN WHO WANTS TO PLEDGE HIS ALLEGIANCE!!!!!
Also when I was in middle school, when our school district was able to say the pledge of allegiance, the lousy kids who would say it would leave out "in God we trust." right After that I went to the "teacher" that organizes the morning announcements and complained about it and she ignored me so I went to the Principle and it was fixed.

One of these days I am going to go the front office of my highschool and tell them that I have an important announcement, I'll go to the microphone and say "please stand and repeat 'I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all!'

Joseph
An American and a Christian.

"If God had been a liberal there wouldn't have been ten commandments, there would have been ten suggestions." ~Malcolm Bradbury

[cpecka]

Thank you, Joseph.

A blade of grass that blows in the wind, will always remain weak as it bends with the others.

It is the tenatious ones who stand alone upright in the light, resisting the wind that are strong.

cpecka

[BULLSEYE BILL]

Here is the e-mail that I was refering to in my earlier post.
Bill

WRITE IT ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE ENVELOPES!!

I simply love this idea! Lets do it! You may have heard in the news that a couple of Post Offices in Texas have been forced to take down small posters that say "IN GOD WE TRUST". The law they say is being violated is something silly about electioneering posters (is God running for office?).
Anyway, I heard proposed on a radio station show, that we all write "IN GOD WE TRUST" on the back of all our envelopes.
After all, that is our national motto, and it's on all the money we use to buy those stamps. I think it is a wonderful idea. We must take back our nation from all the people that think that anything that offends them should be removed.
If you like this idea, please pass it on, and DO IT. The idea of writing or stamping "IN GOD WE TRUST" on our envelopes sounds good to me.

[Frohnho]

If you are offended by what I say then don't listen "One Nation Under God".


That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God."
(1st COR 2:5)

[Got Honey?]

How come the people who want "one nation under God" and "In God we trust" out, don't care about actors, actresses, comidians, and music saying "Oh my God!" and "God **** it!" every 5 seconds on TV and on the radio? I guess you have to keep the phrase you like to shout when your mad or frustrated.

Joseph

[This message has been edited by Got Honey? (edited March 06, 2003).]

[dcross]

Congress shall make no law...abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press...

First amendment of the Bill of Rights.

[hoosierhiver]

how about "one nation under the constitution".

[dcross]

Amen.

[Joel Acheson]

This is a subject about which I have done much thinking and study over the years, so how about some simple historical facts? I don't want to create any flaming here, but this is honestly as close to the truth as I have been able to dig up.

The pledge of allegiance was composed by a Marxist Socialist in the 1880's (sorry I don't remember her name), who wanted to turn the allegiance of Americans away from God, whom the majority of Americans then openly worshipped, and focus it on the government, which the atheistic socialists wanted us to worship instead. She, and her followers, tried unsuccessfully to get the pledge adopted by Congress for some 50 years.
It was then brought into American thought beginning in the 1930's, by having it introduced into our school classrooms as a daily exercise. We grew up repeating it daily, and it became "As American as apple pie", even though it's original author was a radical socialist follower of Karl Marx. Sorry about that.

The only Congressional action on the Pledge which I am aware of was the 1954 (I think) addition of "under God", prompted by those who did not like the unGodly implications of the Pledge without it.

Most people get ticked at me here, but in for a dime, in for a dollar...

Please remember that words have meanings, and whether we fully understand the words which come out of our mouths, or not, we are still bound by them just as if we do understand them. Consider the actual words of the Pledge: A pledge means to bind oneself by promise, or to give security for. Allegiance (al-liege-ance) is "the duty owed by a vassal to his feudal lord, or an obligation of support to one's ruler, government, or country." One's ruler, or feudal lord, was his "liege", and the liege, or lord, was sovereign - the boss. In other words, when we recite the Pledge of Allegiance, then (whether we knowingly intend to or not) we are promising ourselves as the security for our promise to be obedient to our ruler, the flag (government). Just what a good Marxist socialist would like to see.

Let's shift focus here just a bit. When our country was founded, it was on the principle that sovereignty (which means the ruling power) was vested in the people (you and me), and that government is our servant. In others words, WE are the liege lord in this country, and the govt is the vassal servant which should be pledging it's allegiance to us, not the other way around as we now do it. At least that is the way the system was originally designed, and how it should be running now. We all know that isn't the case, but, oh well...

I try not to wear it on my shirtsleeve, but I am a dedicated Christian, and my Liege is Jesus Christ - not the flag of the United States. When I am where the pledge is being recited, my pledge is to my Lord and King, Jesus Christ. "Choose ye this day whom ye will serve, as for me and my house...".

This doesn't mean that I am unpatriotic. I was in the Army as a volunteer, not a draftee, and I volunteered for duty in Viet Nam, but was sent to England instead (13th USASA Field Station). Disappointed then, but glad now.

But look at what the word "patriotic" means. It comes from "pater", latin for father, and originally meant to act "as a father". This means to govern and, when necessary, correct that which we are father to - including the government if/when it steps out of bounds. (Which I believe is where it is now.) It has now come to be synonimous with "nationalism", which is a devotion and duty to one's nation, often to excess, as in chauvinism. I am a patriot in it's original sense, not a nationalist or a chauvinist.

I guess that I don't see whether taking out the words "under God" really makes much difference, after all.


Joel

[cpecka]

interesting indeed